Same skis, different skiers, different results...

Coolhand

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So, had an epic ski weekend locally. Great conditions, 6-8" powder over skier packed each day, perfect consistency, hero snow. I sent out a demo ski with a customer (Head Kore 99) which has been a big hit for our shop this season. I was able to get out and enjoy the conditions and also took a pair of the same ski.

This is only the second Kore that I have skied, the first was the Kore 105 in 15" of wet, heavy, spring snow. The 105 crushed those conditions for me. By far the best ski that I have encountered for those conditions. The Kore 99 on Sunday was similar. Carve, crud, bumps, trees, whatever, it also killed it for me. Amazing performance for such a light ski without metal. I see why they are so popular.

My customer on the demo I sent out, hated them. Said that they deflected in the crud and were unstable, and he gave up on them after a few runs. My customer went back to his own skis (Rossi Bandit B4's) and had a much better day.

Wow, what a different experience we had and vastly different impressions of the same ski on the same day, in the same conditions. We are both bigger guys, over 200#, he has me by 6" and I have him by 30#. Boots are nearly identical. My style is that I try to carve through everything when possible, however, I fall back into "old school" techniques when it get's steep and bumpy. Try to ski powerfully, at speed. His style is also very aggressive, but not focused on classic carving turns, more slashy, upright, and "new school".

I also went back to my personal skis in that category (Fischer Motive 95ti), to compare them to the Kore 99's. Performance was similar, but the Kore's were much lighter and were easier to "throw around" in tight spots. I probably won't trade them out just yet as my Motives still have a lot of life left in them and they still ski very well relative to the newer skis in that category. But, if I was in the market, I'd buy the Kores in a second.

Long story... But the point is, the skier makes all the difference. "It's the Indian, not the arrow". Lots of factors contribute to a skier's experience with different equipment. Many times, it is just simple physics, height, weight, etc.,skier physiology, sometimes it is boots (balance and alignment), sometimes it's is the tune on the skis, and sometimes it's skiing style and preferences. It is cautionary in taking any single equipment review and coming to a definitive conclusion about a particular piece of equipment.
 

Tricia

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Could be a couple things. I would guess skiing style (or skill set) and the fact that the technology difference between the Bandits and the Kore is quite a leap. This person probably won't like any ski that is that big of a jump in technology.
 

Doug Briggs

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I concur. Everyone has different needs and likes.

I've got a pair of B4 Squads for your customer when they need another pair. 184cm.

Seriously.
 

slowrider

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Skied yesterday on 1 fischer bc ski and 1 dynastar carve ski 1 on each foot. Not a huge difference in movements.
 

graham418

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Could be a couple things. I would guess skiing style (or skill set) and the fact that the technology difference between the Bandits and the Kore is quite a leap. This person probably won't like any ski that is that big of a jump in technology.
What she said .
Some people don't like to be pushed out of their comfort zone. They have to be coaxed out gradually. Others have preconceived notions that are hard to change. Everybody is different. Go figure. :P
 

Scruffy

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I never skied them, but I think I remember that they were a particularly stiff ski. What you are used to frames your impressions.
Stiff and dead, if I remember correctly.
 

Tricia

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I never skied them, but I think I remember that they were a particularly stiff ski. What you are used to frames your impressions.
Its been a long time but IIRC when I skied them (maybe) 12 years ago, they were fairly stiff and so damp they were almost lifeless.
The Kore probably has too much energy for his taste.
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
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slashly and upright isnt new school, its bad skiing....but those old B4 could be smeared around quite a bit
 

Tony S

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My customer went back to his own skis (Rossi Bandit B4's) and had a much better day.
Well, there you have it.

This thread is a good concept, but your guy doesn't hold up his end of the foil role.
 

Philpug

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There are two things going on here. First, taking someone from a 20 year old 80mm ski and putting him on a modern 100mm ski..in conditions that are a huge variable. Sensory overload, he got back on his old skis...his comfort zone and he was happy. Second, there are few bad skis...only wrong skis. This is why we do our reviews with "Who is the ski for" and "Who is it not for", we help people avoid the wrong ski.
 

Tony S

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taking someone from a 20 year old 80mm ski and putting him on a modern 100mm ski
Well yeah. My thought was basically - not to be uncharitable about it - that the reaction of someone on those skis is useless as a data point when it comes to comparing and contrasting contemporary skis.
 
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TS
C

Coolhand

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Trying not to judge my customer as to whether his skiing is bad or not. I'm not an instructor. I have been skiing for over 45 years and have had lots of lessons and have worked pretty hard on my own skiing. I'm not going to tell him to "learn how to ski" or criticize him, I want him to have fun and find a ski that makes it easier and more fun to ski. Just trying to find the right "fit" for his style and needs. We'll get there, I'm confident of that. But, I have to keep reminding myself that just because I really like something, I need to be careful not to project my preferences onto my customers. Like Phil says, "There are no bad skis, just wrong skis." Most of the time when testing a new model, I keep that in mind. In this case, I had a pretty epic day on the Kore and his feedback was strongly, the polar opposite, it surprised me. Even after 25 years of selling skis, it kind of took me aback a bit. Not really searching for answers, because I'm pretty sure that we will figure it out. Just thought that I'd share this experience with the members here to keep in the back of your mind when "helping" others find the "right" ski for their needs.
 

Alexzn

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All true... However I had plenty of experiences when people liked wrong skis for the wrong reason. I still remember an example when a friend bought a new pair of skis after a demo. He is a 5'3" guy, pretty lightweight, and to be honest, a fairly bad skier. To my shock he ended up with a pair of essentially 165 slalom race skis that he skied as an all-mountain pair. What he liked was the stiff tail that he could ride in a backseat, push the tips around, and not wheel out. What I explained to him was that even though the skis worked for his current technique, they were a huge impediment to his progress, an intermediate would not be able to ski fast enough or apply enough tip pressure to bend a very stiff ski properly, so he would be stuck in the tail riding mode forever.

If I had a dollar for every city dude who was riding the tails of his Mantras 10-7 years ago, I would have been able to afford my Kastles much sooner :-0) All these guys were riding the "best ski on the market" that locked them into technical mistakes. That's why I think that demoing is almost counterproductive until you reach a certain skill level. Or at least if you demo, be honest about your skiing abilities and have someone pick a few skis that matches that and gives you a path forward.
 

François Pugh

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Were you skiing the exact same pair of skis, or the exact same model with different tunes, his having the hanging bur?
It doesn't sound like that to me, just something you might want to check (and probably did).
What it does sound like is he was skiing the ski past it's speed limit and you were not.
 
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