Same skis, different skiers, different results...

Discussion in 'Hardgoods: Skis, Bindings, Poles, and More' started by Coolhand, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Coolhand

    Coolhand Putting on skis Skier

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Posts:
    37
    So, had an epic ski weekend locally. Great conditions, 6-8" powder over skier packed each day, perfect consistency, hero snow. I sent out a demo ski with a customer (Head Kore 99) which has been a big hit for our shop this season. I was able to get out and enjoy the conditions and also took a pair of the same ski.

    This is only the second Kore that I have skied, the first was the Kore 105 in 15" of wet, heavy, spring snow. The 105 crushed those conditions for me. By far the best ski that I have encountered for those conditions. The Kore 99 on Sunday was similar. Carve, crud, bumps, trees, whatever, it also killed it for me. Amazing performance for such a light ski without metal. I see why they are so popular.

    My customer on the demo I sent out, hated them. Said that they deflected in the crud and were unstable, and he gave up on them after a few runs. My customer went back to his own skis (Rossi Bandit B4's) and had a much better day.

    Wow, what a different experience we had and vastly different impressions of the same ski on the same day, in the same conditions. We are both bigger guys, over 200#, he has me by 6" and I have him by 30#. Boots are nearly identical. My style is that I try to carve through everything when possible, however, I fall back into "old school" techniques when it get's steep and bumpy. Try to ski powerfully, at speed. His style is also very aggressive, but not focused on classic carving turns, more slashy, upright, and "new school".

    I also went back to my personal skis in that category (Fischer Motive 95ti), to compare them to the Kore 99's. Performance was similar, but the Kore's were much lighter and were easier to "throw around" in tight spots. I probably won't trade them out just yet as my Motives still have a lot of life left in them and they still ski very well relative to the newer skis in that category. But, if I was in the market, I'd buy the Kores in a second.

    Long story... But the point is, the skier makes all the difference. "It's the Indian, not the arrow". Lots of factors contribute to a skier's experience with different equipment. Many times, it is just simple physics, height, weight, etc.,skier physiology, sometimes it is boots (balance and alignment), sometimes it's is the tune on the skis, and sometimes it's skiing style and preferences. It is cautionary in taking any single equipment review and coming to a definitive conclusion about a particular piece of equipment.
     
  2. Tricia

    Tricia The Velvet Hammer Admin Pugski Ski Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Posts:
    11,215
    Location:
    Tahoe
    Could be a couple things. I would guess skiing style (or skill set) and the fact that the technology difference between the Bandits and the Kore is quite a leap. This person probably won't like any ski that is that big of a jump in technology.
     
    Bad Bob, Tony S and Scruffy like this.
  3. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs Skiing the powder Industry Insider Pugski Ski Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Posts:
    3,204
    Location:
    Breckenridge, CO
    I concur. Everyone has different needs and likes.

    I've got a pair of B4 Squads for your customer when they need another pair. 184cm.

    Seriously.
     
    cantunamunch and Tony S like this.
  4. slowrider

    slowrider Out on the slopes Skier

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Posts:
    1,231
    Skied yesterday on 1 fischer bc ski and 1 dynastar carve ski 1 on each foot. Not a huge difference in movements.
     
    cantunamunch likes this.
  5. graham418

    graham418 Out on the slopes Skier

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Posts:
    1,258
    Location:
    Toronto
    What she said .
    Some people don't like to be pushed out of their comfort zone. They have to be coaxed out gradually. Others have preconceived notions that are hard to change. Everybody is different. Go figure. :P
     


  6. KingGrump

    KingGrump Most Interesting Man In The World Team Gathermeister

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Posts:
    2,936
    Location:
    NYC
    While skiing at the Big Sky gathering with @Philpug

    Phil: Just demo the new Kendo. You won't like it.
    Me: Why?
    Phil: Because I love it.
    Both of us laughed.
     
  7. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Posts:
    5,786
    And??
    Does the new one end the relationship for you?
     
    Philpug likes this.
  8. mdf

    mdf entering the Big Couloir Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Posts:
    2,702
    Location:
    Boston Suburbs
    I never skied them, but I think I remember that they were a particularly stiff ski. What you are used to frames your impressions.
     
    RuleMiHa, Tony S and Scruffy like this.
  9. Scruffy

    Scruffy Getting off the lift Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Posts:
    441
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Stiff and dead, if I remember correctly.
     
    Tony S and slowrider like this.
  10. Tricia

    Tricia The Velvet Hammer Admin Pugski Ski Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Posts:
    11,215
    Location:
    Tahoe
    Its been a long time but IIRC when I skied them (maybe) 12 years ago, they were fairly stiff and so damp they were almost lifeless.
    The Kore probably has too much energy for his taste.
     
  11. Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    3,164
    slashly and upright isnt new school, its bad skiing....but those old B4 could be smeared around quite a bit
     
    Alexzn likes this.
  12. EBG18T

    EBG18T Luv da snow! Skier

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2018
    Posts:
    297
    Location:
    VT
    I guess this is why there are a ton of ski options on the market. What works for me might not work for you.
     
    RuleMiHa and Doug Briggs like this.
  13. Alexzn

    Alexzn Ski Squaw Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Posts:
    1,049
    Location:
    Bay Area and Truckee
    I smell bad technique for your customer. Most all modern skis will be better than B4s (on the feet of a competent driver).
     
    Tony S likes this.
  14. KingGrump

    KingGrump Most Interesting Man In The World Team Gathermeister

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Posts:
    2,936
    Location:
    NYC
    Don't know. We'll see when I get on a pair.
     
  15. Tony S

    Tony S aka qcanoe Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2015
    Posts:
    2,395
    Location:
    Maine
    Well, there you have it.

    This thread is a good concept, but your guy doesn't hold up his end of the foil role.
     
    HardDaysNight likes this.
  16. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Posts:
    19,609
    Location:
    Reno, eNVy
    There are two things going on here. First, taking someone from a 20 year old 80mm ski and putting him on a modern 100mm ski..in conditions that are a huge variable. Sensory overload, he got back on his old skis...his comfort zone and he was happy. Second, there are few bad skis...only wrong skis. This is why we do our reviews with "Who is the ski for" and "Who is it not for", we help people avoid the wrong ski.
     
  17. Tony S

    Tony S aka qcanoe Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2015
    Posts:
    2,395
    Location:
    Maine
    Well yeah. My thought was basically - not to be uncharitable about it - that the reaction of someone on those skis is useless as a data point when it comes to comparing and contrasting contemporary skis.
     
  18. Thread Starter
    TS
    Coolhand

    Coolhand Putting on skis Skier

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Posts:
    37
    Trying not to judge my customer as to whether his skiing is bad or not. I'm not an instructor. I have been skiing for over 45 years and have had lots of lessons and have worked pretty hard on my own skiing. I'm not going to tell him to "learn how to ski" or criticize him, I want him to have fun and find a ski that makes it easier and more fun to ski. Just trying to find the right "fit" for his style and needs. We'll get there, I'm confident of that. But, I have to keep reminding myself that just because I really like something, I need to be careful not to project my preferences onto my customers. Like Phil says, "There are no bad skis, just wrong skis." Most of the time when testing a new model, I keep that in mind. In this case, I had a pretty epic day on the Kore and his feedback was strongly, the polar opposite, it surprised me. Even after 25 years of selling skis, it kind of took me aback a bit. Not really searching for answers, because I'm pretty sure that we will figure it out. Just thought that I'd share this experience with the members here to keep in the back of your mind when "helping" others find the "right" ski for their needs.
     
  19. Alexzn

    Alexzn Ski Squaw Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Posts:
    1,049
    Location:
    Bay Area and Truckee
    All true... However I had plenty of experiences when people liked wrong skis for the wrong reason. I still remember an example when a friend bought a new pair of skis after a demo. He is a 5'3" guy, pretty lightweight, and to be honest, a fairly bad skier. To my shock he ended up with a pair of essentially 165 slalom race skis that he skied as an all-mountain pair. What he liked was the stiff tail that he could ride in a backseat, push the tips around, and not wheel out. What I explained to him was that even though the skis worked for his current technique, they were a huge impediment to his progress, an intermediate would not be able to ski fast enough or apply enough tip pressure to bend a very stiff ski properly, so he would be stuck in the tail riding mode forever.

    If I had a dollar for every city dude who was riding the tails of his Mantras 10-7 years ago, I would have been able to afford my Kastles much sooner :-0) All these guys were riding the "best ski on the market" that locked them into technical mistakes. That's why I think that demoing is almost counterproductive until you reach a certain skill level. Or at least if you demo, be honest about your skiing abilities and have someone pick a few skis that matches that and gives you a path forward.
     
    Ulysses and cantunamunch like this.
  20. François Pugh

    François Pugh Out on the slopes Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Posts:
    2,189
    Location:
    Great White North (Eastern side currently)
    Were you skiing the exact same pair of skis, or the exact same model with different tunes, his having the hanging bur?
    It doesn't sound like that to me, just something you might want to check (and probably did).
    What it does sound like is he was skiing the ski past it's speed limit and you were not.
     
    ski otter 2 likes this.

Share This Page


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice