• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
Pugski Salomon 1170x538 with shadow.jpg

Pugski.com is proud to announce that it has chosen Salomon as the official binding of its test fleet. When testing skis, we look to remove as many variables as we can; using the same binding on every ski allows us to concentrate on a ski’s performance without worrying whether the binding is affecting the results. Salomon’s Warden MNC 13 DT has one of the lowest stand heights of any two-part demo binding; this allows a test ski to perform more like it would with a typical retail binding. Owner Phil Pugliese is excited about the relationship: "Bindings are about confidence, and I have been using Salomon bindings off and on since the mid-1970s, going back to the 727. The Warden MNC 13 DT will allow us to get the most out of our test fleet for our readers."

In some cases, a manufacturer will specify a particular binding for a ski; otherwise, you will start seeing Salomon Warden MNC 13 demos on all the skis in Pugski.com's test fleet.

About Pugski.com: Pugski.com has become a leader in skiing news, information, and gear reviews in a very short time. Pugski.com reviews are unique and interactive, allowing consumers to discuss and debate gear with their testers. Pugski.com creates excitement like no other review site or skiing publication. As the online ski community continues to grow, Pugski.com has been at the forefront of content creation, information, and traffic generation. Since its launch in 2015, Pugski.com has enjoyed tens of millions of page views.

About Salomon: Born in the French Alps in 1947, Salomon is committed to pushing the boundaries of mountain sports through the creation of innovative equipment that allows people to play, progress, and challenge themselves in their chosen outdoor sports. The company produces and sells premium footwear, winter sports and mountaineering equipment, hiking equipment, and apparel specifically designed for all of those disciplines. Products are developed in the company’s Annecy Design Center, where engineers, designers, and athletes collaborate to create innovative solutions that continually improve the outdoor experiences of those who see nature as a vast playground.
 

Tom K.

Skier Ordinaire
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
8,402
Nice!

I kind of stumbled into having Solly binders on my 100 and 115 skis, and I've become a definite fan.

So, I'm guessing that certified pugksiers will be in for a deal?! :D

Semi-Oldster Note: My first pair were 505 Equipes IIRC. Fourth grade. K2 XR10s. Yikes!
 

Dwight

Practitioner of skiing, solid and liquid
Admin
Moderator
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Posts
7,441
Location
Central Wisconsin
Warden vs Attack demo, show Wardens have a lower stand height by 5mm but weight more by about 300 grams. What is the difference in ramp between the two?

Have the specs changed for 2020 models on either of them?
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
Warden vs Attack demo, show Wardens have a lower stand height by 5mm but weight more by about 300 grams. What is the difference in ramp between the two?

Have the specs changed for 2020 models on either of them?
Ramp angle is about the same. Stand height, as you say is lower but weight is up a bit. Binding design is a bit beefier, the retail Warden that the RS is based on is in the $259 MAP range where the Attack 13 is $199 MAP.
 

Eleeski

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,287
Location
San Diego / skis at Squaw Valley
The Solomon Warden bindings are 700 grams heavier than the Marker Squires I prefer (according to Powder 7). The demos might add a bit more weight. On some of the lighter skis, this will make enough difference to affect performance.

On the other hand, Marker Squires aren't a favorite binding. Some people and applications call for a higher DIN. The plastic construction might be less durable. The Markers are a pain to get on in the snow. Some people want a heavier binding (???). Most non backcountry bindings are heavier so a heavier binding to test with is appropriate for real world applications.

@Philpug noted that manufacturer specified bindings will be used when called for. Good!

Of course, with skis trending lighter, perhaps Solomon engineers will put the bindings on a diet to bring the weight down. My old Salomon TIs are some of the lightest bindings I found. I loved them!

Eric
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
The Solomon Warden bindings are 700 grams heavier than the Marker Squires I prefer (according to Powder 7). The demos might add a bit more weight. On some of the lighter skis, this will make enough difference to affect performance.

On the other hand, Marker Squires aren't a favorite binding. Some people and applications call for a higher DIN. The plastic construction might be less durable. The Markers are a pain to get on in the snow. Some people want a heavier binding (???). Most non backcountry bindings are heavier so a heavier binding to test with is appropriate for real world applications.

@Philpug noted that manufacturer specified bindings will be used when called for. Good!

Of course, with skis trending lighter, perhaps Solomon engineers will put the bindings on a diet to bring the weight down. My old Salomon TIs are some of the lightest bindings I found. I loved them!

Eric
You prefer the Squire but yet you don't like them? :huh: As we have said numerous times, when you are buying a better binding, you are buying a better housing, not so much a stronger spring. If you see Marker is also phasing away from the Squire heel with the new TCX heel design, so they also are seeign the short comings that you noted.

Some skis are trending lighter, but not all, the new K2 Mindbenders are on the heavier side of the spectrum and are receiving pretty much univeral acclaim, so light weight isn't the end all in ski design. The unsprung weight of a binding will be minimally felt on snow, maybe when the ski is being carried but not nearly as much when skiing. I believe sacrificing some additional weight for increased rigidity for performance is a fair trade off.

The Salomon Ti's that you are referring to are notorious for breaking heel tracks. That heel was never designed to be on a ski over 70mm and the lateral torque put on ot with a wider ski compromises the track. Yes, Salomon still offers it with an optional wide brake but the new Warden 11 and Warden 11 MNC are much better options..especially for skiers like yourself who prefer a lighter (sub 2000 gram) binding option.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
The Internet says the adjustable range of the Warden MNC 13 is 28mm. How does this compare to typical demo binding range?
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,788
Location
Sun Peaks B.C. in winter, Victoria B.C. in summer
I have the Warden 13 retail bindings on a pair of Head Kore 93 and regardless of the weight of the binding, every time that I pick up the skis I am aware of how light weight they feel.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,453
I have the Warden 13 retail bindings on a pair of Head Kore 93 and regardless of the weight of the binding, every time that I pick up the skis I am aware of how light weight they feel.
Yeah, everytime I carry my 192cm Stockli 95's with Pivot 18's I notice how light they are compared to slalom race skis. Unless you're walking uphill, the light obsession is over rated. Most of the super light uphill freaks are like Giraffe's on ice skates coming down.

The Grumps ski moguls all day, ain't young, and I've never seen them concerned with weight. I could see it if you're a comp bump skier.
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,788
Location
Sun Peaks B.C. in winter, Victoria B.C. in summer
The Internet says the adjustable range of the Warden MNC 13 is 28mm. How does this compare to typical demo binding range?

28mm is just over an inch, so that is a pretty good adjustment range for a retail binding. A demo binding that is on an adjustable track for both toe and heel would be about 4x more adjustable.
 

Dwight

Practitioner of skiing, solid and liquid
Admin
Moderator
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Posts
7,441
Location
Central Wisconsin
The Internet says the adjustable range of the Warden MNC 13 is 28mm. How does this compare to typical demo binding range?

Atomic/Salomon Warden 13 DT
  • Adjustment range: 262-382cm
  • Toolless length adjustment: Yes, w/manual AFD
  • Sole compatibility: DIN, GripWalk, WTR, MNC
  • Pluses: Full MNC
Fischer/Tyrolia Attack2 13 AT Demo
  • Adjustment range: 259-382mm
  • Toolless length adjustment: Yes w/manual toe height
  • Sole compatibility: DIN, GripWalk, WTR, MNC
  • Pluses: Accepts all soles
 

Eleeski

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,287
Location
San Diego / skis at Squaw Valley
You prefer the Squire but yet you don't like them? :huh: As we have said numerous times, when you are buying a better binding, you are buying a better housing, not so much a stronger spring. If you see Marker is also phasing away from the Squire heel with the new TCX heel design, so they also are seeign the short comings that you noted.

Some skis are trending lighter, but not all, the new K2 Mindbenders are on the heavier side of the spectrum and are receiving pretty much univeral acclaim, so light weight isn't the end all in ski design. The unsprung weight of a binding will be minimally felt on snow, maybe when the ski is being carried but not nearly as much when skiing. I believe sacrificing some additional weight for increased rigidity for performance is a fair trade off.

The Salomon Ti's that you are referring to are notorious for breaking heel tracks. That heel was never designed to be on a ski over 70mm and the lateral torque put on ot with a wider ski compromises the track. Yes, Salomon still offers it with an optional wide brake but the new Warden 11 and Warden 11 MNC are much better options..especially for skiers like yourself who prefer a lighter (sub 2000 gram) binding option.

I think the first time I met you in person, I was ordering replacement tracks!

You know that I'm a light weight equipment freak! I will put up with some compromises to get a lighter weight so I tolerate the Squires.

My point was that binding weight does make a difference on some ski's performance. Clearly not all skis are affected. Some may be enhanced by weight. There are a lot of factors that go into ski performance, weight is just one.

Reliability and durability for a demo binding in demo conditions is a huge factor. I wasn't meaning to criticize your selection.

For the skis that benefit from extreme light weight, Salomon Shift 13 might be a worthy Salomon binding. A review some time in the future?

Eric
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
I think the first time I met you in person, I was ordering replacement tracks!

You know that I'm a light weight equipment freak! I will put up with some compromises to get a lighter weight so I tolerate the Squires.

My point was that binding weight does make a difference on some ski's performance. Clearly not all skis are affected. Some may be enhanced by weight. There are a lot of factors that go into ski performance, weight is just one.

Reliability and durability for a demo binding in demo conditions is a huge factor. I wasn't meaning to criticize your selection.

For the skis that benefit from extreme light weight, Salomon Shift 13 might be a worthy Salomon binding. A review some time in the future?

Eric
We do have some Salomon Shifts on some appropriate skis, Atomic Backland 107's in a 189 and Renoun Citadel 106's in a 178. The Shift is a great binding for it's design and Salomon/Atomic nailed the design. The adjustment range is about 25mm so it can accommodate almost 3 shell sizes but with a fixed toe position, it is limiting to testing the ski, we are basically testing the binding. FWIW, these skis are available for our Tahoe testers to get out on, let us know if you are interested in spending some time in the bindings and doing a review.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,453
Anyone know if the Black/Orange Demo version is available in the US? Appears to be available in Europe.

IMG_6125.JPG
 

Eleeski

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,287
Location
San Diego / skis at Squaw Valley
We do have some Salomon Shifts on some appropriate skis, Atomic Backland 107's in a 189 and Renoun Citadel 106's in a 178. The Shift is a great binding for it's design and Salomon/Atomic nailed the design. The adjustment range is about 25mm so it can accommodate almost 3 shell sizes but with a fixed toe position, it is limiting to testing the ski, we are basically testing the binding. FWIW, these skis are available for our Tahoe testers to get out on, let us know if you are interested in spending some time in the bindings and doing a review.
OK, so you nailed it! Exactly the right ski binding matches. Cool!

The Renoun has been on my radar to try (being the light freak I am). Maybe I can try them when I get back up.

Eric
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
Anyone know if the Black/Orange Demo version is available in the US? Appears to be available in Europe.

View attachment 69040
The Catalog shows just the black/white version. This is what I would order anyway, goes with almost everything.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top