Rustler 11 or Kore 117

[Fraussie]

Hi guys

I'm in the market for my first fat ski and would be keen to hear your views. I’ve short listed the Kore 117 and the Rustler 11 (in 180cm ?) but I’m struggling to make a choice between those 2 skis. Haven’t really found any reviews of those two skis side by side.

I’m a reasonably advanced skier and I live in Japan. I’ve been spending a lot of time off-piste with snowboarders and it’s made me realise that I need a second pair off skis! Deep powder in carving skis is a bit tiring I’m currently riding a pair of Salomon Enduro XT800. I also want to start doing some backcountry skiiing and I thought I could mount a pair of Salomon Shift on the Kore or the Rustler for touring.

I’m reasonably athletic, 5’10 and a 175lbs. I’m looking for a ski with good floatation that stays stable at high speeds but can also be playful. I will ski in all sorts of terrain: trees, big mountain etc. I want something I can ride hard but something that is also fun at low speeds. Basically, I need a bit of a do it all

 

[Jim McDonald]

SR107 might be just what you're looking for, especially with premounted Attack 13 demos (just sayin' )

 

[Andy Mink]

Here's a review by @Alexzn on the Kore.
EDIT: Nevermind, I see you already found that thread when I got to the bottom!

 

[Alexzn]

Kore. Especially if you are looking to do backcountry.

If you prioritize tree skiing and can spend a bit more a DPS Wailerr Alchemist is a worthy contender.

 

[GregK]

Of the 2, the Rustler is more fun and playful with still being as good at higher speeds as the Kore. The Kore is more of a traditional mount, directional ski and not that great in tighter spots at lower speeds. Easy to ski but not what most would classify as a “fun/playful” ski. The Kore is not that much lighter in weight although it’s damp for its weight. Neither is a high speed charger or great in crud but not bad if you size up to 188cm or 189cm and move the mounts forward a bit to make them pivot better.
Rustler 11 a better on groomers with its width but you’d sacrifice float of course. Another reason to upsize with that ski to 188cm for your size.

The ski you REALLY want is the 184cm Moment Wildcat(used to called the Bibby but they updated construction and it’s now called Wildcat). Will VASTLY outperform either ski in all conditions and why its been the reference powder ski for 10 years. It pivots on a dime in trees, charges crud like a much heavier charger ski, carves soft groomers at highway speeds yet weights about the same as the Kore or Rustler. Moment even have a lighter construction Tour version now which would be lighter than any of these skis but would sacrifice crud and high speed performance a bit. I’d still prefer a Tour Wildcat over a Kore or Rustler though. Mostly resort skiing with a bit of touring, stay with the traditional 184cm Wildcat as it’s still light for its width.
A quick search online will show you all the rave reviews on that ski and it lives up to the hype. It is the reference standard in a playful charger ski and would be perfect in Japan or anywhere out West in North America.


https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2019-2020-moment-blister-pro-wildcat

If you read Blister’s review of the Kore 117 and Rustler 11, they do compare them to skis like the Moment and it’s always “not as good at high speeds” “not as good in crud” “not as good in tight trees” as the Moment Bibby.


Moment Japan video of the Bibby charging all conditions.

 

[Alexzn]

Moment Bibby/Wildcat is definitely a cult favorite, but for a certain group of bro population (roughly the same that used to like PM Gear skis). Blister likes them, but they also sell their co-branded version (Moment Blister Pro). All Moment skis I tried were relatively unresponsive below 20-30mph, stiff, any playfulness was coming from the rocker and sidecut, and all dampness was coming from weight. I just do not think Moment can match the sophistication of large manufacturers like Head or Blizzard or boutique innovators like DPS. Personal opinion, of course. And Moment is definitely not the first brand I am thinking about when I am asked about touring skis. And I bet that a touring construction Moment does not ski like a regular version.

 

[Fraussie]

Of the 2, the Rustler is more fun and playful with still being as good at higher speeds as the Kore. The Kore is more of a traditional mount, directional ski and not that great in tighter spots at lower speeds. Easy to ski but not what most would classify as a “fun/playful” ski. The Kore is not that much lighter in weight although it’s damp for its weight. Neither is a high speed charger or great in crud but not bad if you size up to 188cm or 189cm and move the mounts forward a bit to make them pivot better.
Rustler 11 a better on groomers with its width but you’d sacrifice float of course. Another reason to upsize with that ski to 188cm for your size.

The ski you REALLY want is the 184cm Moment Wildcat(used to called the Bibby but they updated construction and it’s now called Wildcat). Will VASTLY outperform either ski in all conditions and why its been the reference powder ski for 10 years. It pivots on a dime in trees, charges crud like a much heavier charger ski, carves soft groomers at highway speeds yet weights about the same as the Kore or Rustler. Moment even have a lighter construction Tour version now which would be lighter than any of these skis but would sacrifice crud and high speed performance a bit. I’d still prefer a Tour Wildcat over a Kore or Rustler though. Mostly resort skiing with a bit of touring, stay with the traditional 184cm Wildcat as it’s still light for its width.
A quick search online will show you all the rave reviews on that ski and it lives up to the hype. It is the reference standard in a playful charger ski and would be perfect in Japan or anywhere out West in North America.


https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2019-2020-moment-blister-pro-wildcat

If you read Blister’s review of the Kore 117 and Rustler 11, they do compare them to skis like the Moment and it’s always “not as good at high speeds” “not as good in crud” “not as good in tight trees” as the Moment Bibby.


Moment Japan video of the Bibby charging all conditions.

Thank you! Super useful. Been doing some research on Moment skis and the Wildcat sounds awesome. Sadly the Wildcat is sold out everywhere. The Deathwish could be a great option though - I've sent an email to the Moment's guys for advice.

Re sizing up, I'm not too sure. I'm pretty light (175lbs) and not very tall (5'10). Never skied big skis either. Could be a bit of a stretch.

 

[Fraussie]

Moment Bibby/Wildcat is definitely a cult favorite, but for a certain group of bro population (roughly the same that used to like PM Gear skis). Blister likes them, but they also sell their co-branded version (Moment Blister Pro). All Moment skis I tried were relatively unresponsive below 20-30mph, stiff, any playfulness was coming from the rocker and sidecut, and all dampness was coming from weight. I just do not think Moment can match the sophistication of large manufacturers like Head or Blizzard or boutique innovators like DPS. Personal opinion, of course. And Moment is definitely not the first brand I am thinking about when I am asked about touring skis. And I bet that a touring construction Moment does not ski like a regular version.

Thanks Alexzn - so you would still recommend the Head 117 and Rustler 11 over the Moments?

 

[GregK]

I’m the same weight but taller and could either ski the 184cm(I currently have the heavier 184cm 2018 Bibby) or the 190cm Wildcat if I wanted something for more open areas. Read the Blister gear review and go to the Moment site and read all the customers reviews. No other powder ski close to be as good all-around as the Wildcat. If you’re used to more directional skis, simply move the mount a cm or 2 back.

No idea what Moment skis @Alexzn tried but the flex of the Kore 117 is stiffer than the Wildcat or Rustler and it’s the Kore that isn’t great at lower speeds/tight spaces. Wildcat is solid underfoot with very forgiving and playful tip/tails as is the Rustler. Kore much less forgiving tails.
The Wildcat pivots incredibly easy in tight spots with its rocker profile and like any wide ski with a 25m turning radius, it does like a bit of speed to carve quickly on groomers. That’s what makes it so stable at high speeds. I use mine on 550’ vertical hills carving with ease and it’s unreal pivoting in the trees.
The Commander series from Moment is their charger series to compete with the Blizzard Cochise/Bonifide and it’s stiff and less forgiving. Stable at VERY high speeds though. Maybe what you skied?

If you can’t find new, you will be able to find used I’m sure. Think they may be slightly updating the wood core for next Fall as they found a slightly damper wood combo when making the new Wildcat 108 and they may do the same core on the original Wildcat. Then it will charge even harder yet weight about the same still as the Rustler 11. Win/win!

 

[GregK]

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2541446/

Do a 2 sec search and saw these. $20 base grind and the bases would be perfect. Great bindings too!

Offer $200 off shipped without bindings if you wanted to use Shifts or something else.

 

[Ken_R]

Honestly one of the best skis I have ever used in lower angle powder is the Black Crows Nocta (185cm) which I currently own. Next might be the Moment Deathwish which I sold but kinda miss since its good in a much wider range of conditions (firmer snow / moguls) than the Noctas. The only downside of the Moments is that top sheet durability just does not match the bigger brand's other wise they are great skis. They might have improved in that regard though but in my skis the top sheet was chipping away.

 

[Andy Mink]

The only downside of the Moments is that top sheet durability

If you had one of the older versions of the DW with the shiny top sheet, they do tend to scratch and check easily. The new ones all have the textured top sheet similar to DPS and some of the other bigger name brands. It looks better and is sturdier.

 

[Ken_R]

If you had one of the older versions of the DW with the shiny top sheet, they do tend to scratch and check easily. The new ones all have the textured top sheet similar to DPS and some of the other bigger name brands. It looks better and is sturdier.

I had the one with the textured top sheet.

It is really not a big deal. Again, I liked the skis so much I would buy them again. They had a great balance of weight and flex.

 

[GregK]

Agreed on the newer Semi-cap, textured top sheets are way better to prevent chipping. My older PB&J were bad but they too have been changed to improve that as well as reducing swingweight with the semi cap tip/tail construction.

Went to Moment’s site the Luke the CEO of Moment said next year’s Wildcat in 184cm will be available soon, so you’ll be able to get the latest brand new. Same core as last years and no plans yet to change it to the wood used in the Wildcat 108.

Btw-Deathwish has been stiffened up a bit to improve its performance on harder snow especially in the 190cm version.

 

[Alexzn]

The more this thread goes the more you sound like a candidate for DPS skis. A wailer 112 or even a Lotus 124 will be money and in Alchemist construction it's light enough to tour. Designed and tested in Utah so similar snow to Japan.

If you need to upside to get flotation, get a wider ski. Greg's advice for you to get on 188/189 lengths is questionable. You are skiing trees, the last thing you need is extra length.

There are not that many skis that can ski.the resort and are light enough to tour. DPS Alchemists and Kores are on that list.

 

[GregK]

Never recommended getting a 188cm/189cm for the OP, just that you’d have to get into those lengths to be even semi close to as stable at higher speeds. Free Ride Tour riders much smaller than the OP are running 188cm/192cm just to get the Rustler/Kore more stable. A 184cm Wildcat would be much more at ease at speed that the longer length of the Kore or Rustler.

DPS 112 has been improved in the 2019 version by adding weight so it’s no longer thrown around as much in crud or in bad snow but still not as damp or as stable as the Wildcat(116/118 underfoot) even with a similar weight. VERY traditional mount point as well to try and help it’s float which decreases its playfulness a bit. Better than the Kore in trees and similar to the Rustler 11 there.
It’s decent in untracked powder though. It’s the tracked snow or crud where it falls apart compared to damper skis. Not great on groomers still.
So, decent ski but definitely not as versatile as the Wildcat.

Btw-180cm Rustler 11 1980 grams, DPS 112 2019 184cm 2000 grams, Kore 117 180cm 1900 grams, Wildcat 184cm 2000 grams. So all very close to the same weight.

 

[Mike Rogers]

I am the same height and weight as the OP.

. All Moment skis I tried were relatively unresponsive below 20-30mph, stiff, any playfulness was coming from the rocker and sidecut, and all dampness was coming from weight.

I own the deathwishes, and I find they are very good at low speeds. I have them at 184 specifically for skiing tight trees....generally my Fernie ski. They aren't particularly stiff or heavy though, so maybe a different experience.

One of the weakness of this ski is in making accelerating turns down the fall line in hard off piste chalk or other variable junk. My Blizzard Brahmas (187) are much more confident for high speed chalk or junk. I just need to avoid breakable crust with the Blizzards.

.And I bet that a touring construction Moment does not ski like a regular version.

They don't....


Or at least I would hope not. I own the 184 Wildcat Tours and after a few test days, regulated them to back-country only. Even on untouched pow, I would rather be on amy resort based powder ski.

I like them better than the old (first gen?) wailer 112s (hybrid) though. But I would imagine that ski is more refined now, or maybe it just didn't suit my style.

My SO (5'7, 135) is on the Wildcat Regular (174) and she really likes them. So, I hope the regular version is better than the tour...but again, it might just be a ski that I don't totally get along with. I don't find the tour to be especially quick, but they are more than adequate. I think they are a decent compromise, but they don't live up to the "just lighter than the inbound" hype.

.........

I also own (and sold) the Rustler 11 at 180. I really like this one in trees. It was too short for open spaces though. I bought the ski after demoing on a bad ankle (turning left hurt), and while I appreciated the 188, it was a bit too much for me when hobbled. Was considering replacing the 180 with 188 this year, but wanted something new. Miss that ski.

Liz tours (her heavy setup) on the Sheeva 11 (172?). She does really well on these in the trees....probably better that on her Wildcats.

We both have light touring setups for going long distances.


Just another perspective.

If I lived in Japan (and I haven't even been there), I would look into the DPS Lotus or the Nocta. Go big!

I don't think you need to count grams f you are doing lift-based touring.

 

[Philpug]

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2541446/

Do a 2 sec search and saw these. $20 base grind and the bases would be perfect. Great bindings too!

Offer $200 off shipped without bindings if you wanted to use Shifts or something else.

Why would someone go to a bike site to talk skis?

 

[GregK]

Why would someone go to a bike site to talk skis?

Lol. It’s what came up in the search! New ones available soon so don’t need used ones anyway.

Black Crows Anima would be my pick number 2 in this width range. Touch softer than the Wildcat and not as versatile in crud/speed but similar mount and shape. Never skies their wider skis but I’m sure they are good too.

If someone isn’t wowed with Wildcat in trees, I wouldn’t doubt that they are not detuned enough tip/tail. Moment skis like ON3P skis like to be heavily detuned from tip/tail down to the camber contact point, not the taper point. Had them sharp tip/tail after a base grind and they were awful. Detuned to the contact point and they are magic now. Enough grip on harder snow but super easy to pivot in trees. I run all my other skis sharp tip/tail 1/3 but Moment’s ski catchy that way. 1/1 and detune.

 

[ski otter 2]

Thank you! Super useful. Been doing some research on Moment skis and the Wildcat sounds awesome. Sadly the Wildcat is sold out everywhere. The Deathwish could be a great option though - I've sent an email to the Moment's guys for advice.

Re sizing up, I'm not too sure. I'm pretty light (175lbs) and not very tall (5'10). Never skied big skis either. Could be a bit of a stretch.

Bibby Pros got changed this year after staying the same for years (hence the current sellout; new one is slightly lighter, but apparently similar skiing). In the States, the Bibby Pro is thus selling cheaper second hand. A pair sold last week on eBay for under $300. Since it's a powder ski, it will tend to be in great shape, as long as it hasn't been used on rails, in the park.

I can confirm what @GregK wrote above, mostly. Amazing ski, the Bibby. It would be my first choice, of these three, also. But to me, you can't go wrong with either of your two choices OR with the 184 Bibby 116 (5 stars). And there are other 5 star powder skis also.

I demoed the Kore 117 on a powder day, also the Rustler 11 on such a day. Neat skis both. I think the Kore is better in crud, probably (based on only a dozen runs). It's also lighter. But I'd be happy with either.

To me, the Kore 117 was great in 180. It is a bit stiffer and more traditional, but not by much. It is incredibly lightweight for its stability in crud, with carbon construction - so not so traditional that way. To me a 5 star ski. It is slightly not as good on groomers as the other two skis mentioned (Rustler 11 or Bibby), but still good there.

The Rustler 11, to me, was so forgiving/easy flexing for a lighter weight guy that I liked all three lengths - 180 (5 stars), 188 (4 stars), 193 (5 stars). (I'm smaller than you - 150 lbs tops, 5'10"). The 180 is more playful (to me good in crud with a more relaxed, less chargy style) - somewhat like the Bibby 184, though the 184 can be skied more charging also, and is noticeably better in crud than all three Rustlers; not sure about compared to the Kore.

Of the Rustler 11s, 193 is a better length for having charging as one option, for someone on the lighter side at least, best at speed and in crud of the three lengths. It's almost as good in crud as the shorter Bibby. I mention the 193 because this Blizzard ski is no burly man ski. It's a ski that someone my size can handle easily on any powder day w/o charging - unlike the original Blizzard Bodacious, for example.