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tromano

Goin' the way they're pointed...
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Dec 28, 2015
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Layton, UT
I think the most impact trail running has had on my skiing is in my feet. Strengthening the small muscles in the feet and ankle, improved nerve acuity in the feet helps with feeling the snow. Additional practice edging and pressuring the feet to quickly change directions. And then more practice with balance...
 

ella_g

Getting off the lift
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Joined
Dec 4, 2016
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206
This is a great discussion, and I wasn't going to add anything but I was reading an interview with Erling Kagge, the first guy to walk to both poles etc, and he says about walking in forests, "What I like about the forest is that the terrain is uneven or rugged. And then you have to move with your whole body using your arms, your head, and somehow you feel that you are experiencing with the whole body. And also you make decisions before you feel they have reached your head. It's whole mind and body balance." I spend a lot more time running down trails than skiing (like 20:1, I run a lot) and I started to realize I like distance running because it takes me about 10 miles to get to a place where I stop overthinking everything / second guessing everything and start to let my peripheral vision and body take over, my brain just finally kind of shuts off. Once I get there, the running is great. I have to say Im a lot more tentative with skiing and have a much harder time getting out of my head. There's obviously more to it than just getting out of your head, but in terms of how the two relate to each other, I find that I really start to enjoy both running down hill and skiing when I can trust my body to figure things out, and getting to that place probably has a lot to do with the hours you spend doing the activity. Ive also noticed that overthinking is an adult thing, when I hike with my kids, they run down trails pretty fast with backpacks ... part of it is that they fall on their faces regularly and are generally unphased ... but part of that is that they naturally seem to be able to achieve that mind body balance thing Kagge is talking about, or they're just less inclined to overthink everything...
 

karlo

Out on the slopes
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NJ
Thanks for the post and sharing

it takes me about 10 miles to get to a place where I stop overthinking everything / second guessing everything and start to let my peripheral vision and body take over, my brain just finally kind of shuts off.

I’ve rarely gotten to this state. But, from the few times I have, the more consequential it is, the quicker I get there. It’s like our brain is so highly focused that all else gets shut down, even feelings of fatigue.
 

green26

Putting on skis
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May 7, 2016
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96
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Santa Barbara CA
This subject is exciting for me, but I'm trying to figure out if I have anything to add of additional value. I run super steep trails every day. They are about two feet wide and completely littered with small and large rocks that I basically consider to be ball bearings most of the year unless it's rained (very infrequent). Usually do about 1500 ft vertical. I almost always run with poles. I use the poles mostly on the way up. I get kinda bored after all these years just running with my legs. On the ascent, almost always plant the poles simultaneously to push, except for downward jump turns. Having the poles held parallel to the ground on the descent is interesting. My jumping is much smoother, perhaps like having outriggers. I even use 3 pound weights on my wrists with the poles. This creates a quiet upper body. I'm not going for speed, but rather how to kick my own ass. My brother labels this aerobic junky. One thing this hazard running does is to constantly make me aware of how important tactics are. For example, when going down really steep slippery ball bearing segments, I lean waaay forward from the hips. It's remarkable to me what I can run down with that. I find that when inevitable slips occur, my body just takes it in stride with the proper balance. This teaches me a lot about skiing, which I think about all the time while running. Also, the dangers are right there, keeping me very focused. Even then, stuff happens. Dislocated fingers. Then once I fell downhill onto a one inch diameter stump, right on my heart. This was the same year a beloved local at Taos died in the Whats chutes the same way. Thought about him as I got up, wondering if I was okay. Did a ski week with his sister-in-law last February. I digress. The trail is so curvy and lined with the chaparral that I can't look far ahead, and the rock situation is such that I have to make very quick decisions for each step. It gets very interesting when I'm fatigued. Then I find that I must be deliberate and push myself to be aware at all times. It's all excellent mental/spiritual/physical conditioning for skiing. I'm very grateful to have mountains here. I'm not my best on flats, I just really like constantly changing challenges of running steeps. This all parallels the kind of terrain I love to ski. I would bore you all by writing more cuz I love thinking about this subject, but my wife says we must cut our dog Tilly's nails right now.
 
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SSSdave

life is short precious ...don't waste it
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Sep 12, 2017
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Silicon Valley
Surprised no one here has mentioned backpacking because the strong forces of skiing are closer to hiking carrying a weighty pack than hiking down a trail without a pack. I've been hiking and backpacking in mountains nearly 5 decades. And backpacking am notorious for carrying heavy weight because am also a serious landscape photographer with a lot of camera gear. Am certain those heavy forces of summer backpacking have always helped my winter mogul skiing both strengthening a full range of body muscles as well as balance skills. And when descending irregular trails as is often the case in the High Sierra unlike big thru trails, each step looking down in what is in front, one needs to semi-automatically make a decision of where to step much like when skiing down a fall line in moguls. As each stepping foot lands, one must maintain upper body balance of those forces while maintaining a degree of momentum and immediately as compression of landing ends, automatically project that up-forward motion towards the next stepping point. As a small 66" 137# guy often carrying over 60# even in my old age, that not only provides leg strengthening but also torso/lower back strengthening that is so key in bumps however do not recommend others try carrying as much weight as I do because I have had years developing my body to do so and rather suggest more typical carrying weight
 

karlo

Out on the slopes
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May 11, 2017
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NJ
do not recommend others try carrying as much weight as I do because I have had years developing my body to do so and rather suggest more typical carrying weight

Carrying weight while flowing downhill certainly raises the bar. I'm glad you added the last word of caution. Me, I know my knees would not be able to take it. If not that day, they would certainly be in pain the following. The same cautionary statement can be made for speed and pitch. As it gets faster and more severe, the harder it will be on the knees, which is where I think the analogy of running downhill to skiing breaks down.

In skiing, we can use our hips, we can use angulation. Not so when running. Actually, one of the reasons why I started angulating more when skiing was to absorb shock in moguls, absorb it with angulation of hips rather than with the knees. Hence, I would much rather ski the side of a mogul with my pelvis over the top of the mogul, or ski them with GS turns, rather than hit them straight on. That preference resulted in my angulating a lot more in every condition. As running downhill develops fore-aft balance, perception and processing of terrain and features, and "flow", I wish there were a similarly "normal" activity by which we can lead the use and benefits of angulation.
 

tball

Unzipped
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2055-1-jpg.58028
I thought of that image running with my headlamp tonight. I think that's also similar to skiing 3D snow. It's amazing our brains remember and can feel what's underneeth us while we look and plan ahead.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
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Nov 12, 2015
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6,698
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New England
Yes it is. I've looked down while walking my whole life. I'm finally learning to look ahead.
New life skill learned late in life!
 

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