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hollyberry

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
May 1, 2018
Posts
171
Location
Baltimore, MD
Skating will quickly break one of the habit of skiing from the back seat. But...if you have any back problems, be very wary of falling on your butt and the shock goes up your problem spine. Ouch!

If anyone is interested, I have a pair of Hillbilly padded shorts, size XL. These are older, good condition, not as lumpy as the current version, and really need to be out of my closet. They look OK under other shorts, not too bulky. PM me if interested.
But how to manage steep downhills? SO different from skiing in that regard. I just tried out some new ‘blades in Central Park the other day and made a complete idiot of myself the first time I hit a steep downhill. The heel brake was not cutting it! I had to bail on to the grass.
 

John Webb

mdskier
Skier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,798
Location
Nevada City CA
anybody here rollerblade to help get into ski shape? I live in the flatlands so thinking about starting to help get the legs ready for ski season.
First year I did skiing I had done lots of rollerblading. It was excellent conditioning for skiing -but I didn't know it at the time.
Just be careful as I think risk of injury is higher with rollerblades.
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
22,193
Location
Lukey's boat
But how to manage steep downhills? SO different from skiing in that regard. I just tried out some new ‘blades in Central Park the other day and made a complete idiot of myself the first time I hit a steep downhill. The heel brake was not cutting it! I had to bail on to the grass.

The grass stop - that is it's accepted name- is a perfectly acceptable form of stopping.

In fact, when you proceed to get rid of the heel brake, when you graduate to big wheels and shorter boots, it will become a preferred way of saving money through saving your wheels.

That said, Central Park doesn't really have any San Francisco-level downhills, the heel brake should have been functional at an only-mildly-scary level unless the surface was wet or sandy/gravelly.

First, check your ready stance (front to back balance) - because that's always the first thing to check.

Second, check your scissoring. For maximal heel brake effectiveness, the heel of the braking foot needs to be directly in front of the toe of the gliding (back) foot. The more the braking foot is to the side of the gliding foot, the less well your heel brake will work. (A diagonally worn brake pad is one very quick giveaway of a beginner skater's ability limits).

Practice scissoring, gliding with one foot in front of the other. Eventually you will get to where scissoring will be your default move on steep downhills, simply because when you have a good scissor a minor branch or minor divot in the road cannot knock you out of your front to back balance. Scissoring also eliminates speed wobble - unstable engagement of the front wheel's precession- and so it is triply useful.

Inability to get a clean scissor indicates one of three things - in descending order of likelihood they are: a) skates too big b) skate frame out of alignment c) skater has alignment problem and can't stack chin-groin-knee-ankle on top of each other. If you think it's (b) it's probably (a). If you think it's (c) it's almost definitely (a). (b) is generally diagnosed by massive stabiliser muscle cramps 3-4 miles down the road in otherwise perfectly fit, capable skaters.

Once you have a clean scissor, to brake well the heel brake needs to be a) engaged b) powered. Engagement and powering are not one move. Engagement either flicks the toe of the leading skate up or, on ABT skates, lowers the cuff of the leading skate. Powering means sitting, hard, directly in between the two skates. Not on the front and not on the back but in between.

The more you separate engagement and powering, the better your heel brake will work. This is particularly true of wheel sizes >90mm and of...downhills.

So, to recap, to your question 'How to manage steep downhills' the answer is:
- review ready stance, make sure your elbows are not behind your torso or flopping about, keep your knees soft
- scissor, deep and clean
- separate heel braking into two distinct components of engage and power-sit.


Advanced tactics - a tool chest:

- Keep your feet active on downhills. Static gliding feet are lazy, slow, paralyzed feet. Static feet create helplessness and panic.

- Scissor into a lunge turn. Practice this move, practice it lots. It's a lot quicker to turn out of danger's way than to come to a stop. Think red light at the bottom of the hill - whatcha gonna do?

- Grass stops work

- Gliding wedges are a good way to scrub speed, keep feet active, and even out pointy wheel wear esp. on back wheels.

- At slower speeds, with limited pavement, and with big wheels, a spin stop is more effective than a heel brake stop

- If you are going to the trouble of wearing your bulky, sweaty, stifling, stinky knee pads, use them. The soccer goalie stop is a good stop.
 
Last edited:

hollyberry

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
May 1, 2018
Posts
171
Location
Baltimore, MD
The grass stop - that is it's accepted name- is a perfectly acceptable form of stopping.

In fact, when you proceed to get rid of the heel brake, when you graduate to big wheels and shorter boots, it will become a preferred way of saving money through saving your wheels.

That said, Central Park doesn't really have any San Francisco-level downhills, the heel brake should have been functional at an only-mildly-scary level unless the surface was wet or sandy/gravelly.

First, check your ready stance (front to back balance) - because that's always the first thing to check.

Second, check your scissoring. For maximal heel brake effectiveness, the heel of the braking foot needs to be directly in front of the toe of the gliding (back) foot. The more the braking foot is to the side of the gliding foot, the less well your heel brake will work. (A diagonally worn brake pad is one very quick giveaway of a beginner skater's ability limits).

Practice scissoring, gliding with one foot in front of the other. Eventually you will get to where scissoring will be your default move on steep downhills, simply because when you have a good scissor a minor branch or minor divot in the road cannot knock you out of your front to back balance. Scissoring also eliminates speed wobble - unstable engagement of the front wheel's precession- and so it is triply useful.

Inability to get a clean scissor indicates one of three things - in descending order of likelihood they are: a) skates too big b) skate frame out of alignment c) skater has alignment problem and can't stack chin-groin-knee-ankle on top of each other. If you think it's (b) it's probably (a). If you think it's (c) it's almost definitely (a). (b) is generally diagnosed by massive stabiliser muscle cramps 3-4 miles down the road in otherwise perfectly fit, capable skaters.

Once you have a clean scissor, to brake well the heel brake needs to be a) engaged b) powered. Engagement and powering are not one move. Engagement either flicks the toe of the leading skate up or, on ABT skates, lowers the cuff of the leading skate. Powering means sitting, hard, directly in between the two skates. Not on the front and not on the back but in between.

The more you separate engagement and powering, the better your heel brake will work. This is particularly true of wheel sizes >90mm and of...downhills.

So, to recap, to your question 'How to manage steep downhills' the answer is:
- review ready stance, make sure your elbows are not behind your torso or flopping about, keep your knees soft
- scissor, deep and clean
- separate heel braking into two distinct components of engage and power-sit.


Advanced tactics - a tool chest:

- Keep your feet active on downhills. Static gliding feet are lazy, slow, paralyzed feet. Static feet create helplessness and panic.

- Scissor into a lunge turn. Practice this move, practice it lots. It's a lot quicker to turn out of danger's way than to come to a stop. Think red light at the bottom of the hill - whatcha gonna do?

- Grass stops work

- Gliding wedges are a good way to scrub speed, keep feet active, and even out pointy wheel wear esp. on back wheels.

- At slower speeds, with limited pavement, and with big wheels, a spin stop is more effective than a heel brake stop

- If you are going to the trouble of wearing your bulky, sweaty, stifling, stinky knee pads, use them. The soccer goalie stop is a good stop.
Awesome!! Thanks!! And yes, I am definitely wearing all my padding, especially the wrist guards, since I’m a professional violinist! No desire for a broken wrist!!!
 

cantunamunch

Meh
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Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
22,193
Location
Lukey's boat
And yes, I am definitely wearing all my padding, especially the wrist guards, since I’m a professional violinist! No desire for a broken wrist!!!

About that...wrist guards do protect hands -everyone should wear them along with a helmet - but the case for a generic wrist guard protecting wrists is very weak, and the gauntlet type is not necessarily more protective than the slider type.

If you are absolutely, professionally serious about wrist pro, consider a spring-backed wrist guard like the Flexmeter. And wear it *tight* - loose wrist guards break arm bones.
 

Seldomski

All words are made up
Skier
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Posts
3,064
Location
'mericuh
About that...wrist guards do protect hands -everyone should wear them along with a helmet - but the case for a generic wrist guard protecting wrists is very weak, and the gauntlet type is not necessarily more protective than the slider type.

If you are absolutely, professionally serious about wrist pro, consider a spring-backed wrist guard like the Flexmeter. And wear it *tight* - loose wrist guards break arm bones.

I have a pair of the Flexmeter. They are pretty substantial for protection. I have not fallen hard on them yet, but there is a lot of support there. I have slipped a bit twice and caught myself on my hands with no pain or injury to the wrist. I absolutely rely on my hands working to do my job, so skimping on protection to save $$ there makes no sense.
 

hollyberry

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
May 1, 2018
Posts
171
Location
Baltimore, MD
About that...wrist guards do protect hands -everyone should wear them along with a helmet - but the case for a generic wrist guard protecting wrists is very weak, and the gauntlet type is not necessarily more protective than the slider type.

If you are absolutely, professionally serious about wrist pro, consider a spring-backed wrist guard like the Flexmeter. And wear it *tight* - loose wrist guards break arm bones.
Yikes! I will definitely check that out.
 

T-Square

Terry
Admin
Moderator
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Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,606
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Enfield, NH
By the way, do any of you know ski gloves with good wrist protection?

Understand, your profile indicates you are a violinist so your hands are your life. I taught a violinist a few years ago. I recommended she not use pole straps just in case of a fall. Also recommended that she wear snowboard wrist protectors. They fit under your gloves and support and protect the wrist. You’ve had a few recommendations.

Here’s a couple of more:

The Flexmeters look really good. In your position I’d probably go with them. I’m going to keep them in mind for future recommendations.
 

hollyberry

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
May 1, 2018
Posts
171
Location
Baltimore, MD
Understand, your profile indicates you are a violinist so your hands are your life. I taught a violinist a few years ago. I recommended she not use pole straps just in case of a fall. Also recommended that she wear snowboard wrist protectors. They fit under your gloves and support and protect the wrist. You’ve had a few recommendations.

Here’s a couple of more:

The Flexmeters look really good. In your position I’d probably go with them. I’m going to keep them in mind for future recommendations.
Thanks for the suggestions!
 

John Webb

mdskier
Skier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,798
Location
Nevada City CA
Understand, your profile indicates you are a violinist so your hands are your life. I taught a violinist a few years ago. I recommended she not use pole straps just in case of a fall. Also recommended that she wear snowboard wrist protectors. They fit under your gloves and support and protect the wrist. You’ve had a few recommendations.
I use my skating wrist protectors with a snowboard the 2 times i've snowboarded !
 

John Webb

mdskier
Skier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,798
Location
Nevada City CA
The grass stop - that is it's accepted name- is a perfectly acceptable form of stopping.
Not sure what you mean by grass stop. Once I came over the crest of a hill and a family of 5 appeared in front on the paved path.. No time to stop before a gruesome ramming into them.
So I turned onto a large patch of grass, flipped and rolled over several times to a stop. No injuries to anyone including myself !
 

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
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Joined
May 12, 2016
Posts
5,838
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
Nope. but I expect you will get better results googling for wrist protector SNOWBOARD gloves than SKI. It's a classic beginner snowboard injury.

I wish I'd known about these when I was snowboarding. I was at mammoth and did the classic thing of getting lazy on my board, caught my toe edge and bam pile driven into the ground. I don't know how I didn't break both my wrists. I definitely majorly tweaked both thumbs and they weren't quite right a long but somehow I didn't break anything. Last time I made that stupid mistake that's for sure.
 

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