Road Tubeless Tire Recommendations

[Ron]

Tell me more, please.

I'm always interested in rolling resistance, especially as a 195 pound guy, with decent power, who "squares off" his rear tire profile depressingly quickly.

Now I gotta go find the article. . Give me some time.

Tom, I can't find that study but Bicycle Rolling Resistance says tires don't measurably roll slower.

Continental Grand Prix 5000 Endurance Test

Endurance test of a pair of Continental Grand Prix 5000 with rolling resistance tests every 620 miles / 1000 km

www.bicyclerollingresistance.com

 

[Plai]

Riding 17 miles in 1.25 hrs. equates to 13.6 mph. Just saying, but, that seems like a very low number for a serious cyclist on flat ground. Also, weekend rides with climbs of 2-5k is something weaker riders would find very difficult, me included. Jumping to 17 mph, with wind, puts you in a much more advanced category. I'm sure the tires contributed, but not 3+ mph. Any tire that gets an automatic 3+ miles over average road tires would be flying off the shelfs.

Whoever said I was a serious rider? I'm an old, short, slightly overweight desk jockey, with a cycling habit. To my colleagues, I'm insane. To "serious riders", I'm a light weight. I don't care to be categorized. I do care that improvements are being made. FWIW, I never expected myself to see sustained 18-22mph on flats.

lets cut @Plai some slack here folks, he wasn't reporting this as if it was a scientific study, sounds like hes made some great fitness gains and yes, a tire could help out by 2 mph over a short distance. a lot of factors affect speed. a one-hour ride can be a lot of different things depending on how much climbing vs flat vs smooth tarmac vs chip n seal.

+1 owe you yet another

 

[Tom K.]

I am only about 150 lb - but that is why I rotate my tires before the rear "squares off". Alternatively, you just replace the rear tire when it is time. The front tire will generally last a while before showing signs of "squaring off".

I've got a similar plan: I discard the worn rear tire, rotate the lightly-worn front to rear, and put the new tire up front.

 

[Tony S]

I agree about the horror stories @Ron I've had much harder times with various clincher tires than I've ever had with a road tubeless tire. I pinched 4-5 tubes in one day last year trying to install a set of Vittorias on Bontrager rims. I was being careful on the first one and getting more and more careful as I tore tube after tube!

Okay, full confession: I have not read this long thread. But I have an "emergency." (First world emergency.) Hijacking here because Erik's comment is so on-point.

So I have a new wheelset for my road bike that FINALLY arrived after many weeks of waiting. In the course of installing it I weighed it and the set it's replacing. Confirmed I'll be dropping a full 500g, going from a 1,900gm set to a 1,400gm set. So very excited.

Older Vittoria Corsa front tire went on fine. Bam. Newer rear tire, same model ... nope. I could NOT get this tire on the rim without levers. Even then - difficult. And just like @Erik Timmerman says, I pinched TWO tubes trying to get it installed. (Fortunately both were older tubes that had already been patched, so not quite as much of a sacrifice.) Anyway there I was, new wheel, can't ride.

Then I thought, "Screw it. These are tubeless wheels, let's do it!" So I installed the tire tubeless - with some tribulations I'll save for a separate post. Took it for a VERY short ride up and down the street, and this morning it is still holding air. So all good, right?

Well, not really. Having done a little Googling this morning I'm having a crisis of confidence now that taking my MTB DIY assumptions to a road tire was a bad idea, and that I really shouldn't go out on a real ride with this tire setup tubeless, because it's not a "TLR" model with the special bead, yadda yadda. If this is something that's already been covered in this thread, mea culpa; please point me there. If not, what do y'all think about riding this setup as is, from a safety perspective?

 

[zircon]

I wouldn't ride it at road pressures. Even tubeless hacking non-tubeless CX tires at CX pressures and speeds runs the risk of unexpected burping. I'd worry about it blowing off the rim at an inopportune time.

 

[Tony S]

Well, never mind. Even though it was holding fine, I took it all apart this afternoon with fresh determination. Along the way I solved the mystery of why sealant was leaking out around the spoke nipples. (Appears that somehow when I added sealant, some got into the "no pressure" channel of the rim between the spoke bed and the divider that the rim tape sits on.) Washed and dried the whole mess, then attempted to assemble again with a tube. This time the tire went right on with bare hands. Could be that the tire stretched a bit overnight, or it could be that I just had a better attitude. More careful bead positioning? Drier hands? Who knows. Anyway, all good.

Okay, full confession: I have not read this long thread. But I have an "emergency." (First world emergency.) Hijacking here because Erik's comment is so on-point.

So I have a new wheelset for my road bike that FINALLY arrived after many weeks of waiting. In the course of installing it I weighed it and the set it's replacing. Confirmed I'll be dropping a full 500g, going from a 1,900gm set to a 1,400gm set. So very excited.

Older Vittoria Corsa front tire went on fine. Bam. Newer rear tire, same model ... nope. I could NOT get this tire on the rim without levers. Even then - difficult. And just like @Erik Timmerman says, I pinched TWO tubes trying to get it installed. (Fortunately both were older tubes that had already been patched, so not quite as much of a sacrifice.) Anyway there I was, new wheel, can't ride.

Then I thought, "Screw it. These are tubeless wheels, let's do it!" So I installed the tire tubeless - with some tribulations I'll save for a separate post. Took it for a VERY short ride up and down the street, and this morning it is still holding air. So all good, right?

Well, not really. Having done a little Googling this morning I'm having a crisis of confidence now that taking my MTB DIY assumptions to a road tire was a bad idea, and that I really shouldn't go out on a real ride with this tire setup tubeless, because it's not a "TLR" model with the special bead, yadda yadda. If this is something that's already been covered in this thread, mea culpa; please point me there. If not, what do y'all think about riding this setup as is, from a safety perspective?

 

[Tony S]

I wouldn't ride it at road pressures. Even tubeless hacking non-tubeless CX tires at CX pressures and speeds runs the risk of unexpected burping. I'd worry about it blowing off the rim at an inopportune time.

So, seriously, is this a way for mfrs to get me to buy $150 worth of new tires, or is it for realz? I mean, if the bead on my "tubed" clincher were to burp, wouldn't the tube instantly blow out? I have seen this happen in the shop after a botched tire installation. It's terrifying. What's the difference?

Skeptical.

 

[Tom K.]

So I have a new wheelset for my road bike.......and I'll be dropping a full 500g, going from a 1,900gm set to a 1,400gm set.

I'm having a crisis of confidence now that taking my MTB DIY assumptions to a road tire was a bad idea, and that I really shouldn't go out on a real ride with this tire setup tubeless, because it's not a "TLR" model with the special bead, yadda yadda.

Well, that wheel weight reduction is going to be FUN!

And NEVER attempt to go road tubeless without a tire that is meant for it. Or mtb either, for that matter. The risk/reward ratio is just too darn high!

 

[Wannabeskibum]

So, seriously, is this a way for mfrs to get me to buy $150 worth of new tires, or is it for realz? I mean, if the bead on my "tubed" clincher were to burp, wouldn't the tube instantly blow out? I have seen this happen in the shop after a botched tire installation. It's terrifying. What's the difference?

Skeptical.

A properly installed clincher tire on a clincher rim will never burp. Regarding seeing it happen in a shop, the golden rule of changing tube is to make sure the bead is seated all the way around the tire with the tube entirely within the tire. This is done by squeezing the tire together to make sure no tube is visible. Once this is done, you can inflate the tube to the recommended pressure based on the rider’s weight and preference

 

[zircon]

I mean, if the bead on my "tubed" clincher were to burp, wouldn't the tube instantly blow out? I have seen this happen in the shop after a botched tire installation. It's terrifying. What's the difference?

I think it’s mostly that the shape and pressure of a properly installed tube will actively hold the bead under the hooked part of the rim. Tubeless it won’t have that extra degree of protection against getting rolled and it’s a lot harder to seat a tubeless tire properly than to install a tube. That’s a bigger problem with road tubeless because you’re more likely to have the pressure then blow the tire off the rim completely while at mtb or cx pressures you’ll likely just get an annoying flat. Meanwhile a “real” (lol I think there are more tubeless standards than tires on the market at this point) tubeless tire has much tighter tolerances to provide security. Which you’ve probably noticed in the pain and misery of installing one vs a regular clincher.

But then again I’m a physicist not an engineer and have zero practical skills so maybe don’t take my word for it. And I’m also a bit of a heretic in that I don’t really think tubeless is useful for road bikes and I’m still running 25mm corsas on 15c internal C24 rims

 

[Tony S]

Well, that wheel weight reduction is going to be FUN!

Yes.

And NEVER attempt to go road tubeless without a tire that is meant for it. Or mtb either, for that matter. The risk/reward ratio is just too darn high!

Now come on you guys. I sense revisionist history here. Surely I am not the only one here who ran whatever old MTB tires tubeless, for like ten years between, say, 2004 and 2014. As long as the sidewalls weren't so porous the sealant just gushed out, we did it. In the earlier days this was just on a regular rim, too. First maybe with a strip of old inner tube ("ghetto tubeless") or electrical tape, and later with the famous Stan's "yellow tape." There was tons of technical flux. First they started coming out with "UST Tubeless" tires that were airtight out of the box. Those seem to have been a flash in the pan. My sense was that no one used them because they were too heavy. I know I didn't. Then gradually things seem to have settled down with "tubeless ready" tires that we're probably all using now. These have more carcass reinforcement near the bead and maybe less porosity in the sidewall, but aren't the "rubber boots" that the UST tires were. But all this took a long time to go down and meanwhile everyone including me was running tubeless on our MTBs. I never had even one problem that I could ascribe to not having "official" tubeless tires.

This is the background that informs my skepticism with regard to road tubeless.

A properly installed clincher tire on a clincher rim will never burp. Regarding seeing it happen in a shop, the golden rule of changing tube is to make sure the bead is seated all the way around the tire with the tube entirely within the tire. This is done by squeezing the tire together to make sure no tube is visible. Once this is done, you can inflate the tube to the recommended pressure based on the rider’s weight and preference

Yeah. Like I said, the ones I'd seen explode were the result of "botched installation." I know how to install a tire.

I think it’s mostly that the shape and pressure of a properly installed tube will actively hold the bead under the hooked part of the rim.

Hmmm. Interesting. So you're saying that a tube holds the bead under the rim in some way that is different from the way air alone does (or doesn't). I would love to hear someone elaborate on this. I sure don't know.

That’s a bigger problem with road tubeless because you’re more likely to have the pressure then blow the tire off the rim completely while at mtb or cx pressures you’ll likely just get an annoying flat.

Okay, now THAT seems like a materially important comment! Thanks for the observation.

 

[zircon]

Hmmm. Interesting. So you're saying that a tube holds the bead under the rim in some way that is different from the way air alone does (or doesn't). I would love to hear someone elaborate on this. I sure don't know.

I saw a graphic about this once (from a reputable source) but can't find it now. But a properly sized tube, when inflated, sits almost entirely in the round part of the tire above the rim and not the center channel. So as it applies outward pressure it pushes the tire sidewalls down toward the rim edges as well while the center of the rim is closer to atmospheric pressure. In tubeless, the air pressure is distributed through the whole tire and rim bed.

 

[Tom K.]

Now come on you guys. I sense revisionist history here. Surely I am not the only one here who ran whatever old MTB tires tubeless, for like ten years between, say, 2004 and 2014.

I was right there with you in the early days. Stans even had a list of yay and nay tires for conversion. And we blew a few nays right off the rim. In the name of science, of course. And without sealant, cuz we weren't stupid, even at those younger ages.

But today's mtb rims and tires play so well together, it's a no-brainer.

Note that my cautionary statement about road tubeless on a non-TLR tire is based on 1) higher pressures, 2) generally going a lot faster, and 3) going a lot faster on much harder surfaces, and big friggin trucks!

 

[MT Skull]

Follow up: The new Schwalbe Pro One Evolutions 700x25 went onto my ultegra tubeless rims effortlessly. 2 oz of Stan's each, seated with a track pump with valve cores removed.

The ride is noticeably smoother than Pro/Pro One. I don't notice a huge difference in rolling resistance, but I guess I didn't expect to. The front tire seems to hold air a little better than the rear. It will lose 20-30 psi between rides, but no problem holding 90 psi for a 3+ hr ride. Size seems closer to advertised, and appear slightly narrower than their predecessors. Probably have around 500 miles on them now, and very happy with my purchase. Also enjoying road riding the most I have in years; not sure if it's the tires, or just being able to tune out the news for a few hours, but I'm not complaining!

 

[Ron]

just to clarify, thats the Addix, TLE version correct? I run 28's and have about 1K miles on them. fantastic tires, they are wearing extremely well, very comfortable, decently supple , solid grip and "feel" reasonably fast. Since I am running them on Enve 4.5Ar's (25mm internal) I ride them at 59. they aren't as nice or as fast as Conti 5K TLE's but they are really good. I will buy them again since you cant mount 5K's on Enve AR series wheels.

 

[Ron]

Follow up: The new Schwalbe Pro One Evolutions 700x25 went onto my ultegra tubeless rims effortlessly. 2 oz of Stan's each, seated with a track pump with valve cores removed.

The ride is noticeably smoother than Pro/Pro One. I don't notice a huge difference in rolling resistance, but I guess I didn't expect to. The front tire seems to hold air a little better than the rear. It will lose 20-30 psi between rides, but no problem holding 90 psi for a 3+ hr ride. Size seems closer to advertised, and appear slightly narrower than their predecessors. Probably have around 500 miles on them now, and very happy with my purchase. Also enjoying road riding the most I have in years; not sure if it's the tires, or just being able to tune out the news for a few hours, but I'm not complaining!

what do you weigh? Just asking as I see the 90psi.

 

[MT Skull]

175-ish. I’ve been gradually trying lower pressure (75psi) for descents, but still have some residual “120psi or pinch-flat” mentality to overcome.

 

[Ron]

for 25's, 75-80 is just about perfect unless you have really smooth pavement, I dont know where you live.

 

[Tom K.]

In related news, I see Bontrager/Trek is releasing the excellent R3 tubeless in 28 and 25. Previously 32 only for tubeless.

And I think the price went down.

I'll grab some 28s after I wear out the tubed ones on my new Emonda, and report back. Likely next spring.....

 

[Plai]

for 25's, 75-80 is just about perfect unless you have really smooth pavement, I dont know where you live.

Strange, I seem to like mid-90s. Anything lower and the back end seems to trampoline on climbs, and it's a little soft for my confidence in steep descents. I probably have more learning in front of me.