Ride Another Day

[Tricia]

We skied down mountain run at Squaw today and experienced a really interesting guy teaching his kid how to ski. The trouble was, dad is a terrible skier and he's teaching his skills to his kid. He's also teaching his lack fo spacial awareness to his kid.
Love to see parents out with their kids enjoying the snow, but YIKES!

 

[Tom K.]

The worst crashes that I see are two skiers, skiing equally as fast, colliding into one another.

The worst crash I ever saw was a 5 year old kid that skied out of the shaded, woody portion of a run, shortly after which he was mowed down by a shirtless guy that jumped blind off the catwalk above, easily going 50 mph. HUGE speed differential, but that obviously wasn't the whole story here.

The poor little kid looked like a bowling pin tumbling through the air. A couple of broken bones, but otherwise OK, if you want to call it that.

Apparently a known "problem" guy. I ended up giving a written statement to the Sheriff about the incident.

 

[Tricia]

The worst crash I ever saw was a 5 year old kid that skied out of the shaded, woody portion of a run, shortly after which he was mowed down by a shirtless guy that jumped blind off the catwalk above, easily going 50 mph. HUGE speed differential, but that obviously wasn't the whole story here.

The poor little kid looked like a bowling pin tumbling through the air. A couple of broken bones, but otherwise OK, if you want to call it that.

Apparently a known "problem" guy. I ended up giving a written statement to the Sheriff about the incident.

 

[Johnny V.]

Apparently a known "problem" guy. I ended up giving a written statement to the Sheriff about the incident.

I'm going the be the grumpy old fogey here and ask if the guy was a "known problem guy" why was he allowed on the hill?

 

[Tom K.]

I'm going the be the grumpy old fogey here and ask if the guy was a "known problem guy" why was he allowed on the hill?

It was his second incident that year (much, much worse than the first). His pass was immediately suspended, after which I left town and lost track of the proceedings.

 

[headybrew]

Is it the privacy issue that is of concern, where we are, who we are with? RFID lift tix already penetrate that envelope. I’m not as high resolution as a GPS tracking app, but still.

I like it. Groom less, ski more.

RFID technology is great for tracking cattle but IMO is an inappropriate technology to track people. Tattooing an ID # on a horse is OK, as we all know its not OK to tattoo an ID # on a human, I really don't see a difference between the two. Most people are unaware or don't care so they'll probably be doing it sooner than later.

I've gotten assurances from IKON customer support that my Winter Park pass is ONLY used at the lift entrance. If they ever go beyond that I'll put it in a special reflective wallet as soon as I get through the gate.

 

[Carolinacub]

The video and the accident that is behind it inspired a beautiful poster to help raise awareness. Look up "she was 5 you were doing 50".
http://www.nsaa.org/media/282081/Catapult_PSA_Concepts_L7_1_.pdf

 

[AmyPJ]

I can't even watch that video again, as I'd seen it last year and it just struck WAY too close to home. I get pretty grumpy when my daughter is with me out there and we get buzzed by people, most often young men or boys, who are out of control or have zero regard for anyone else on the mountain.

 

[Scruffy]

You can't get people to respect the speed limit on roads, not even close most times; how are you going to convince their kids not to speed on the slopes? I agree with the too much grooming sentiment; along with the wide blue boulevards that enable these bozos that can barely ski to 'open it up'. You can't speed in bumps (unless you're an expert zipper liner) without serious consequences, same with trees or extremely steep terrain.

 

[karlo]

I've gotten assurances from IKON customer support that my Winter Park pass is ONLY used at the lift entrance

Well, that’s more assuring than Zuckerberg making the same assurances.

Anyhow, no doubt they do not track individuals, only the tag, to collect data on lift utilization. However, that also means that speed, and also tag to tag proximity, might be traceable. An individual would only be ID’d if the tag was pulled over for recklessness, again for a friendly word to the individual. I am probably off on the capabilities of current technology. But, there will be a time when safety can be better managed, at reasonable cost, if there is the will.

 

[milkman]

I’m not an expert on this movement but it’s my understanding that emphasis is on skiing fast into a lift line, skiing fast or out of control in any congested area and skiing fast on green runs or other runs commonly used by beginning and intermediate skiers. For example. Today I was cruising at about 20 on an almost empty green groomer. A guy with race skis blew by me making long fast swooping turns covering about half the run. I think we need speed restrictions on beginner runs so that race training is never an appropriate activity.

 

[Johnny V.]

Today I was cruising at about 20 on an almost empty green groomer. A guy with race skis blew by me making long fast swooping turns covering about half the run. I think we need speed restrictions on beginner runs so that race training is never an appropriate activity.

The key here is "almost empty green groomer". Did the guy buzz you or did he give you space? If he buzzed you-not cool, if he avoided you (and others) I don't see a problem (as long as the sight lines are good). We have a long green groomer at our home mountain that I've made multiple fast runs on this past week working on technique. Mostly empty and the sight lines are good. If there are people in front, I dial it back until I can pass them. Would you call this inappropriate?

 

[Fuller]

Well, that’s more assuring than Zuckerberg making the same assurances.

Anyhow, no doubt they do not track individuals, only the tag, to collect data on lift utilization. However, that also means that speed, and also tag to tag proximity, might be traceable. An individual would only be ID’d if the tag was pulled over for recklessness, again for a friendly word to the individual. I am probably off on the capabilities of current technology. But, there will be a time when safety can be better managed, at reasonable cost, if there is the will.

RFID does not have the capability to track speed or proximity to other RFID cards. The card itself is passive, the reader (at the lift) send out a continuous signal and records the presence of the RFID chip. Your iphone is doing a much better job of reporting your whereabouts to the appropriate authorities.

 

[François Pugh]

Big brother apps goes against the idea of Freedom, which is strongly associated with skiing for a lot of people.

Pulling people over for skiing too fast is a good idea in theory, but in practice the speed police get over-eager; I got pulled over on an empty run back in the day (about 35 years ago). It was at Jay Peak, I was on a black run making SG turns while "tucking it all the way", and the speed control person was off the run hiding in the trees on skiers right. He jumped out waving and yelling in front of me. I, thinking his radio must have crapped out and that he needed to stay with an injured skier and wanted me to go call for a toboggan, immediately stopped next to him and asked him what was up. Apparently I was skiing out of control. I pointed out that I had no problem stopping right next to him. Well it's hard to tell who's out of control and who isn't. So, not allowed to tuck at Jay Peak (and most anywhere else). Too bad.

The skiers responsibility code says, "Always Ski in control. You must be able to stop or avoid other people or objects." It does not say "Always ski under 50 mph."

As to blind rollers, what I do (unless I have first tracks and there is no reason to suspect that someone could have access to the area from elsewhere) is turn so that I am skiing 90 degrees to the fall line as I come to the roller and peak over the edge, if there is a gaggle of skiers just over the edge I stop, slow down or turn up hill; if there is nobody there I turn back downhill.

As to less grooming, yes that would stop folks with limited skills from skiing fast, but it won't stop the serious speed freaks, who would have no problem straight lining a mogul run at Mount Tremblant (if you don't believe that, you're not one of them). It would certainly lower the numbers though.

I think the problem is lack of respect for other people. That needs to be taught to children as they are being brought up.

 

[karlo]

As to blind rollers, what I do (unless I have first tracks and there is no reason to suspect that someone could have access to the area from elsewhere)

I'll keep that in mind next time I use an uphill pass. Please keep me posted as to what resort you'll be at.

 

[milkman]

The key here is "almost empty green groomer". Did the guy buzz you or did he give you space? If he buzzed you-not cool, if he avoided you (and others) I don't see a problem (as long as the sight lines are good). We have a long green groomer at our home mountain that I've made multiple fast runs on this past week working on technique. Mostly empty and the sight lines are good. If there are people in front, I dial it back until I can pass them. Would you call this inappropriate?

The skier did not do anything inappropriate and you didn't either. He avoided the beginners and kids in ski schools. I've done it too and probably will again.
Just thinking about how we get at this safety issue. It's complicated.
It's not legal to drive 60 on a winding 30 mph roadway just because the street is empty and the driver is highly capable.
This run has SLOW signs posted, not SLOW when people are present, but neither of us was really skiing slowly. Under control yes but not slow.
Ski patrol has a hard job making these judgement calls.

 

[martyg]

The worst crash I ever saw was a 5 year old kid that skied out of the shaded, woody portion of a run, shortly after which he was mowed down by a shirtless guy that jumped blind off the catwalk above, easily going 50 mph. HUGE speed differential, but that obviously wasn't the whole story here.

The poor little kid looked like a bowling pin tumbling through the air. A couple of broken bones, but otherwise OK, if you want to call it that.

Apparently a known "problem" guy. I ended up giving a written statement to the Sheriff about the incident.

This is important. Ski areas are under no obligation to report accidents to LE. Therefore, we have shit for data on ski area accidents,. The two metrics that we have: 1. Deaths. 2. Physical, third party inspections of the physical plant against a set of criteria.

The only entity conducting #2 is the Snowsports Safety Foundation, which NSAA despises. Every other industry / consumer product has some degree of third party independent inspection.- from drugs to the $10 folding camp chair at Walmart. No ski areas though.

If you see an accident, stop, and call the sheriff. Alert patrol that you did this. In many cases they will, professionally, be against it., Personally they will likely thank you.

 

[AmyPJ]

Snowbasin is FINALLY doing something. I skied through it today. I think the gates at the bottom of the particularly big problem area need to be moved down further, and the sides need to be fenced off entirely, but it's at least encouraging that they are starting to take safety much more seriously. I'm also glad that my daughter will soon be the kid skiing a ton more off-piste, which is always safer, at least from other skiers.
https://www.snowbasin.com/blog/new-...GdWY03WiqiMBvvOwB-VrEkfn5pVywwZqUvDJj30ECmgE0

 

[Andy Mink]

This was at Snowbird at the gathering last year. Very sobering.

 

[Carolinacub]

This was at Snowbird at the gathering last year. Very sobering. View attachment 60800

Thanks Andy for actually getting the picture posted, I put the link out there but I'm kind of computer stupid and have issues getting pictures and such to work correctly. One of our focuses this year on my home mountain is working with mountain ownership to be more proactive on raising safety awareness especially with the newer skiers.