Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[Started at 53]

Well, if you were smart you would not put that on her skis. What's the upside? If it doesn't work really well, you've ruined her Bombers. It's not going to be better than waxing, just allegedly don't have to wax. The day there's a problem, well Phantom is to blame.
It would be cheaper just to get them waxed where you're skiing. Be the guinea pig and do yours. If you rave about it, your views on skis are prob taken at 35% since you're new to it. Actually, let's make that 15.

Maybe she'd want to try it eventually. Basically though, you're taking her precious skis and turning them into some GMO experiment. Stop before it's too late.

Trust me, I have thought about exactly what you have posted!!! Hmmmm.

Gotta agree with @James ... you need to stop the insanity of Phantom-ing Mrs. 53's skis. So much could go wrong.

Which means you have an extra application of the product. And you are in the Sunshine State. And I want my skis done, but live in the Portland cave of winter. Let us think on this .... how can I help you out? Hmmm .... ... j/k

I in fact do have two applications........

And I do have some fear.....

 

[Tricia]

Oh Dude......? Ahh OK, whatever...

Perhaps the Phantom product is not an interest to you and your group.

Does the "waxless" idea interest you, or do you dismiss it as something you could care less about because of the pleasant hours you would miss at your tuning bench?

Actually, the Phantom product is interesting to me, as is a plethora of other technology related to skiing.

You have taken a good ribbing from the women on this site, but then the women on the site aren't necessarily the average women on the slopes.

If you should ever happen to meet me, I'll gladly share a "wee dram" with you. ....of course, you're buying.

 

[VickieH]

And I do have some fear.....

Naw. If I could be assured of at least two 3-hour stretches of sun before the end of the month, I would be "next" for trying this out.

I don't have a wax/tune station. Figured I'll probably have to set one up at my next house. Phantom on my current set of skis will be cheaper than setting up a station. Then, when I get my next skis, I'll use that same logic. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[Started at 53]

@VickieH

I do not want to have to wax, we are NOT racers, and a good permanent medium wax (insert Phantom) is all we need. I am happy to tune edges, but I do not want to deal with waxing, especially if I am in the 40+ days a year range times 2 pair of skis. @Lorenzzo waxed and tuned our skis when we were in Utah, and it was enlightening, and Betsy definitely felt the difference immediately the next day. Yeah, even this newbie could feel the difference in the freshly waxed skis. IF Phantom is the answer to no waxing for every level up to racing it is THE absolute answer for Betsy and I. She gets going pretty good and appreciates the difference. I can 100% guarantee that she will NEVER wax her own skis, and I can guarantee you 99% that she will complain about the price of having it done every 7-10 ski days if waxing was required.

Tools to keep edges in good condition are not expensive and are a one time expenditure, so very easy to justify. Edge maintenance is not time consuming or messy, waxing is time consuming and VERY messy.

Sure those of us trying out the Phantom are essentially testers it seems, and yes we are testing on some expensive items. UNLESS Phantom is a TOTAL failure and ruins the bases as @James mentioned (certainly anything is possible), you can always still wax if the Phantom is not up to the standards you/me/Betsy requires. It would be a $160 failed investment which is not the end of the world in the big picture.

 

[Monique]

Does the "waxless" idea interest you, or do you dismiss it as something you could care less about because of the pleasant hours you would miss at your tuning bench?

Neither? I'm just not sure yet. I want to see what people think of it after they've had it a few years. I don't do temp specific wax, so that issue is off the table.

It might be great for my husband - I wax his skis, but if I didn't, I'm pretty sure they'd go dry most of the time. Fortunately, unlike me, he really just skis one pair.

 

[James]

Seeing as this product hasn't been out at all, assuming there's not a negative is a big assumption. Maybe you can't actually wax over it more than a few times as the heat does something and it gets worse. I think it's a little cavalier to take a very, very expensive ski, (Bomber),and apply an unknown product to it. Based on zero user input other than skiing it a couple times.
Originally it was going to be so easy to put on. Now you need to leave the skis outside for hours.

So, in golf, don't people pay to store clubs and have them cleaned?

 

[Sibhusky]

I actually kind of like waxing. (It's the scraping I hate. Yes, my scraper is sharp.). I didn't try to learn everything at once, started just waxing, built up from there. The rotobrush was a huge improvement. Tuning also started gradually. As many here (on this Forum and Epic) have said, it's kind of Zen.

Oddly, I don't feel that way about housework..

 

[Monique]

I actually kind of like waxing. (It's the scraping I hate. Yes, my scraper is sharp.). I didn't try to learn everything at once, started just waxing, built up from there. The rotobrush was a huge improvement. Tuning also started gradually. As many here (on this Forum and Epic) have said, it's kind of Zen.

Oddly, I don't feel that way about housework..

To me, I think it has to do with time available.

I like waxing .. when I have plenty of time to do it, so I'm not sacrificing something like sleep or down time. I've bought the tools for edge work, but haven't used them yet. It's a little scary, TBH, thinking I might have a really bad ski day if I mess it up.

And yeah, scraping is a pain - sometimes literally with bad wrists and troublesome shoulders. But some time over the last year, I've developed whatever skill it is that allows me to scrape without having to lock down the ski, because I'm not tipping the ski when I scrape. I think it's just awareness of where the ski is relative to the two contact points ... that's made it a lot less annoying.

Similarly, I like to cook ... when I have plenty of time and it's my choice. And I don't even mind doing dishes ..... etc etc.

For me, waxing is also the opportunity to notice other things about the skis. Get a nice close look at the bases in case I've missed a core shot (scratches are par for the course). Notice that, youch, my edges are a mess. Or maybe the top sheet has some damage that needs to be addressed so that it doesn't compromise what's inside.

Anyway, I'll let others be early adopters for the Phantom treatment. I have six pairs of skis, and I typically buy and sell a couple of pairs of skis a season. Given that I'm not paying a shop to wax my skis for the most part, I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense for me financially.

 

[markojp]

Oh Dude......? Ahh OK, whatever...

Perhaps the Phantom product is not an interest to you and your group.

Does the "waxless" idea interest you, or do you dismiss it as something you could care less about because of the pleasant hours you would miss at your tuning bench?

Fwiw, we just had a wax and tuning clinic. 35 or so attendees. 1/2 were women. I don't think there's a 'your group' at play, only folks who care if their skis run well or not. Gender isn't at play, and as mentioned before, most people don't give a hoot about their bases or tune until the core shots or partial edge separations are noticed by their friends. Bottom line, your assumption that somehow men care more sort of drips of condescension, though I doubt that's your intent.

On the DPS special juice, I don't think the tune shop is all too worried. It's still going to be easier for someone to apply one ball or similar than waiting for skis to cure in a warm dry place for x number of hours. Might be good for rental fleets, though.

 

[James]

Looking into this more...

From DPS instructions:

"Clean the base of your skis or snowboard.
BEST - Fresh stonegrind.
BETTER - Off the shelf base cleaner.
GOOD - Use houshold itmes such as hot soapy water or olive oil with a clean rag to clean your bases.
OK - Apply PHANTOM over the top of a waxed base."

Olive oil?? I would think filtered, not extra virgin. @Primoz ??
Then you need 3 hours in the sun for part A; follow with Part B and 3 hours in the sun for that.
Then you cork it out to even the application.

"There may be some slight build-up on the edges. This can be cleaned up with a gummi stone or fine grit sandpaper."
-Yikes!

"For the 1st run or two Phantom may feel sticky. It may take a few runs to ski-in a freshly treated ski or snowboard."

I really don't see any shops dealing with this at present.

https://www.dpsskis.com/pub/media/pdf/phantom/phantomInstruction.pdf

 

[fatbob]

I'm not sure early adopters should be testers. The product has been around for years if it is Juice (and I still don't like the lack of honesty in that regard) and was pretty much a commerical duffer. if it is materially different to that product they should have been in house testing ot for years rather than experiementing on the public. There's a lot I don't like about this story and while I see the early adopters are all about it I think its a coin flip whether it ends up as yesterday's chip paper at the pricepoint and application faff they have.

 

[James]

I'm not sure early adopters should be testers. The product has been around for years if it is Juice (and I still don't like the lack of honesty in that regard) and was pretty much a commerical duffer. if it is materially different to that product they should have been in house testing ot for years rather than experiementing on the public. There's a lot I don't like about this story and while I see the early adopters are all about it I think its a coin flip whether it ends up as yesterday's chip paper at the pricepoint and application faff they have.

Well it's a good reason for the bros to feel they're so much cooler than gapers who wax. Sorry, but the number of posts back on epic along those lines was large. Plus the occasional famous free rider who boasts they never wax or tune, yet get new skis tuned and ready to go for free.

 

[CalG]

Fwiw, we just had a wax and tuning clinic. 35 or so attendees. 1/2 were women. I don't think there's a 'your group' at play, only folks who care if their skis run well or not. Gender isn't at play, and as mentioned before, most people don't give a hoot about their bases or tune until the core shots or partial edge separations are noticed by their friends. Bottom line, your assumption that somehow men care more sort of drips of condescension, though I doubt that's your intent.

.

" Your group" has been strictly defined by it's membership.
quote
Me, @kimmyt , @RachelV , for three ...
end quote.

The subject was if the product might be targeted to the general population of women.
No one suggested any population might "care less". The use of a product that replaces perceived drudgery is not a concession to caring.
From the short series of post immediately above, it appears that many of the female contributors to this thread find some aspect of waxing disagreeable. It is not uncaring about the outcome to seek alternatives to actions that are deemed unpleasant.

the entire process is pleasant to me. (excepting the needle sharp edge shavings that embed into my skin.;_)

 

[James]

Need more shovels for digging...

 

[Tom K.]

Know when to walk away, and know when to run....

 

[Monique]

From the short series of post immediately above, it appears that many of the female contributors to this thread find some aspect of waxing disagreeable. It is not uncaring about the outcome to seek alternatives to actions that are deemed unpleasant.

Ehhhh. Many unpleasant things are extremely satisfying. Like scraping a ski and seeing how smooth it is and that hand-feel of a freshly waxed base. I don't feel that satisfaction when I have someone else do it.

 

[Primoz]

Looking into this more...

From DPS instructions:

"Clean the base of your skis or snowboard.
BEST - Fresh stonegrind.
BETTER - Off the shelf base cleaner.
GOOD - Use houshold itmes such as hot soapy water or olive oil with a clean rag to clean your bases.
OK - Apply PHANTOM over the top of a waxed base."

Olive oil?? I would think filtered, not extra virgin. @Primoz ??

I mean if you buy into this BS about no need to wax anymore, then I guess it's perfectly fine to buy into "cleaning" ptex with olive oil.
Personally I wouldn't touch ptex with olive oil, filtered or extra virgin but hey it's just me
But on serious side... in normal life, you try real hard to get all sort of greasy stuff of your ptex, so I somehow don't consider this as something that works good. And if their serious suggestion is to really use shelf base cleaners and olive oils, then you can think how much all their BS really works
PS: I might have some extra suggestions for them. Cleaning base with gasoline and burning it after that would fit into what? Good or better? If that ends in their manual, you remember where you heard it first!

 

[Monique]

I mean if you buy into this BS about no need to wax anymore, then I guess it's perfectly fine to buy into "cleaning" ptex with olive oil.
Personally I wouldn't touch ptex with olive oil, filtered or extra virgin but hey it's just me
But on serious side... in normal life, you try real hard to get all sort of greasy stuff of your ptex, so I somehow don't consider this as something that works good. And if their serious suggestion is to really use shelf base cleaners and olive oils, then you can think how much all their BS really works
PS: I might have some extra suggestions for them. Cleaning base with gasoline and burning it after that would fit into what? Good or better? If that ends in their manual, you remember where you heard it first!

Makes me wonder. Google told me that the most effective way to clean my bases was to wax and warm scrape. Keep doing it till the warm wax doesn't pull up nasties.

 

[Mendieta]

Looking into this more...

From DPS instructions:

"Clean the base of your skis or snowboard.
BEST - Fresh stonegrind.
BETTER - Off the shelf base cleaner.
GOOD - Use houshold itmes such as hot soapy water or olive oil with a clean rag to clean your bases.
OK - Apply PHANTOM over the top of a waxed base."

Olive oil?? I would think filtered, not extra virgin. @Primoz ??
Then you need 3 hours in the sun for part A; follow with Part B and 3 hours in the sun for that.
Then you cork it out to even the application.

"There may be some slight build-up on the edges. This can be cleaned up with a gummi stone or fine grit sandpaper."
-Yikes!

"For the 1st run or two Phantom may feel sticky. It may take a few runs to ski-in a freshly treated ski or snowboard."

I really don't see any shops dealing with this at present.

https://www.dpsskis.com/pub/media/pdf/phantom/phantomInstruction.pdf

I must admit I didn't read all pages in this very interesting story. All things said, this product promises what I always thought was a missing link in modern skis: bases that don't need waxing for regular (civilian) use (racing is a different story).

But the application at this point is so convoluted that I only see it as a viable product if this was applied by shops. Eventually, this should come already applied to the ski: it would be hard to justify for other brands not to license the tech from DPS. The two important things would be not to degrade with use and stone grinds, and to be compatible with waxing.

Exciting? You bet!
Too early to tell? Yup (IMHO).

 

[James]

Test time:
Which of these items is the most unlike the others?
A) Product sold as "Base Cleaner" for ptex.
B) Hot soapy water
C) Olive oil. Any type,

Just bizarre.