Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[RuleMiHa]

As with all types of polythene UHMWPE ski bases are degraded by UV radiation so I would go easy with the UV exposure.

This product was developed over a very short period of time, so there would have been no time to test the long term effects on the base material.

This is the patent for Juice, a different product. Patent applications are not published until 18 months after filing https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1120.html

I’m pretty surprised that they haven’t published the results of any of the glide tests they must surely have carried out. Using two strong magnets , an Android smartphone and this app http://www.skiira.com/products-services it would be easy to carry out some basic glide tests.

I think Phantom is just rebranded Juice Permanent. A few weeks after the Phantom kickstarter Juice permanent was no longer available for sale and the temporary Juice product had it's own kickstarter. It looks very much like a coordinated effort.

 

[Jacques]

This works for UV light curing
https://olefloridaflyshop.com/shop/tying-tools/loon-uv-infinity-light/

I think you would be shining that little thing for three days. For that price, the skis could go to the tanning salon!

 

[Jacques]

As with all types of polythene UHMWPE ski bases are degraded by UV radiation so I would go easy with the UV exposure.

This product was developed over a very short period of time, so there would have been no time to test the long term effects on the base material.

This is the patent for Juice, a different product. Patent applications are not published until 18 months after filing https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1120.html

I’m pretty surprised that they haven’t published the results of any of the glide tests they must surely have carried out. Using two strong magnets , an Android smartphone and this app http://www.skiira.com/products-services it would be easy to carry out some basic glide tests.

Truth. It's UV light that drys UHMWPE, but you gotta' do what you gotta' do with the juice!

 

[Tom K.]

So, let's see:

I can get rid of my hot box, but need to buy a UV box.......J/K, I have huge hopes for this but NOT if I have to stone grind regularly, simply because I don't have good local access to that.

Decided I'd order this, but saw that it needs to cure for 3 hours in the sun. Twice.

In Portland, this could mean skis being out of commission UNTIL POSSIBLY JULY.

Fixed, above.

Even tougher in the inversion icebox that is winter in Hood River.

 

[Jacques]

So, let's see:

I can get rid of my hot box, but need to buy a UV box.......J/K, I have huge hopes for this but NOT if I have to stone grind regularly, simply because I don't have good local access to that.



Fixed, above.

Even tougher in the inversion icebox that is winter in Hood River.

No. The hot boxed used correctly will be your best friend.
After you try the "juice"...........I think you will go back to waxing assuming you are doing that well.

 

[Andy Mink]

I had a chance to take the Phantom coated DPS Foundation Cassiar 95s out today after what turned out to be a disappointing snowfall. The many inches turned out to be about 3". The good part was finding out how well the Phantom works in fairly wet snow in fresh, tracked, and groomed forms. As @Tricia mentioned early on in the thread there was no WOW factor to it. It just worked and slid quite nicely on everything.

I skied my Moment Tahoes the other day after a deeper snowfall but with about the same water content and I had a hard time sliding to places that are usually easy to get to. Those skis were in need of a wax job but the difference was what a "normal" skier would be faced with: a ski that's been waxed once this season and the one with Phantom. The Phantom coated ski made those same traverses with no problem today. I am guessing these skis now have about 15 days on them in variable conditions and seem to be doing quite well. I haven't had an occasion to ski very cold conditions or dry powder but they have been on chopped wet, icy, firm packed, Sierra Cement, skier packed, spring-like, and the occasional putting green in the middle of the run.

Here's a video of how well they do in moist conditions.

 

[nemesis256]

As @Tricia mentioned early on in the thread there was no WOW factor to it. It just worked and slid quite nicely on everything.

Maybe that's a compliment. Means it's comparable to what you're used to. How does it do on that really wet snow that usually makes you suddenly slow down and feel like you're about to fall forward?

Part of me wants to get this for my touring skis to avoid getting wax on my skins. But the other part wants to see more long term reviews. If the stuff goes all the way into the base, does it possibly go deeper? Like the wood core?

 

[Andy Mink]

Maybe that's a compliment. Means it's comparable to what you're used to. How does it do on that really wet snow that usually makes you suddenly slow down and feel like you're about to fall forward?

Part of me wants to get this for my touring skis to avoid getting wax on my skins. But the other part wants to see more long term reviews. If the stuff goes all the way into the base, does it possibly go deeper? Like the wood core?

I had some conditions like that earlier this year. They did as well or better than a traditionally waxed ski. Meaning I could feel the transition from fast to grabby and back to fast but it wasn't any worse than a waxed ski. Very much like spring sun/shade/sun snow.

 

[Sibhusky]

When they get rid of that, then I'll be interested.

 

[eok]

Truth. It's UV light that drys UHMWPE, but you gotta' do what you gotta' do with the juice!

Reality check: every time you ride up the lift, your ski bases are bathed in UV light. It reflects off the snow. Bluebird spring days are the worst because of the higher sun angle. Basic rule of thumb: if you are accumulating a sun burn, your bases are getting their fair share too. So, I'd think a few hours of UV exposure to cure a Phantom application really is just a drop in the bucket as far as ski bases are concerned.

 

[Monique]

When they get rid of that, then I'll be interested.

Get rid of what?

 

[Sibhusky]

When they get rid of that, then I'll be interested.

Get rid of what?

"Meaning I could feel the transition from fast to grabby and back to fast but it wasn't any worse than a waxed ski. Very much like spring sun/shade/sun snow."

I hate the slide/grab/slide/grab you can get passing trees in the spring. Most of the time I don't get it, but it's always a signal it's time to leave and work on your skis. I usually add a touch of fluoro to combat this, but since I don't wax my skis every night, it's one of the things I hate about spring. Our sun is pretty low in the sky up here, so the shadows of trees are pretty unavoidable. There are a couple narrow trails I just can't avoid if I need to get back to the lodge. If I could have "spring paint", that would be good.

 

[Monique]

"Meaning I could feel the transition from fast to grabby and back to fast but it wasn't any worse than a waxed ski. Very much like spring sun/shade/sun snow."

I hate the slide/grab/slide/grab you can get passing trees in the spring. Most of the time I don't get it, but it's always a signal it's time to leave and work on your skis. I usually add a touch of fluoro to combat this, but since I don't wax my skis every night, it's one of the things I hate about spring. Our sun is pretty low in the sky up here, so the shadows of trees are pretty unavoidable. There are a couple narrow trails I just can't avoid if I need to get back to the lodge. If I could have "spring paint", that would be good.

Ah. I read that as it being no different than regular wax. maybe wrongly?

 

[Tom K.]

@Andy Mink has good observations about a factory-applied coating of the Phantom.

I wonder whether a "home" applied coating will adhere as well?

 

[Andy Mink]

@Andy Mink has good observations about a factory-applied coating of the Phantom.

I wonder whether a "home" applied coating will adhere as well?

That's a good question. I imagine it the directions are followed (heat, time, etc.) the results should be good. Several members have purchased Phantom so there should be some real world reports soon.

 

[Andy Mink]

Ah. I read that as it being no different than regular wax. maybe wrongly?

I think people who REALLY know how to wax a ski well can reduce or eliminate the fast/grabby/fast but for most folks who don't dabble in the art of waxing it is likely only one type of wax is going on the ski at a time. Phantom mimics that type of wax job.

For the majority of skiers no difference will be noticed between Phantom and a basic wax job. Where it will shine is for the person who gets a wax job at the beginning of the season and that's it for the year. For those who enjoy waxing and know how to get the best possible performance from the various types of waxes Phantom need not apply. Spend that $99 on wax.

EDIT- remember, I've skied the Phantom coated skis in a tiny bit of spring-LIKE conditions. Actual spring conditions will have to wait for spring. That will be a better test.

 

[Sibhusky]

Ah. I read that as it being no different than regular wax. maybe wrongly?

I read it as he can still feel it. I want to eliminate it.

 

[dbostedo]

. I want to eliminate it.

That would be very nice... I got my skis waxed after a very sticky day at Copper last year, and the next day it was better, but not nearly as much as I was hoping. So short of doing it yourself with the right level of knowledge, even a fresh shop wax helps minimally with spring conditions.

So if Phantom is no worse than that, I'll be happy with it.

 

[Andy Mink]

I read it as he can still feel it. I want to eliminate it.

That is correct. I don't know enough about waxing to know how to eliminate it. Again, it was just a wee bit springish snow on one day earlier this season. I want to try it on a full blown spring day and see how it works.

I think Phantom's target market is the skier who knows there is such a thing as wax and skis should be waxed but they don't necessarily have the time or desire to do it themselves or have someone else do it.

 

[Sibhusky]

I rely on structure and that fluoro, and usually it's enough... for a while. Then the fluoro and wax wear off, and it's back at it. Especially in spring, the morning crust makes sure the afternoon is pretty wax free. I don't feel like waxing daily or switching skis midday (but have done that a couple times). Would be nice to paint and forget.