Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[coachmdd]

New E88’s from my friends at SkiEssentials in Stowe have the Phantom treatment.

Skied them from 20 degree packed man made to 45 degree Slushy days. Found them to perform as others have described: slightly hard to get rolling if stopped in the lift line, great in warm conditions, maybe 75% of the benefit of a good waxing on a cold day. But my takeaway is that whatever the benefit, it’s always there. There is value in consistency.

Now having said this, I am skiing Cannon tomorrow with an old friend who was a ski length ahead of me every run when we last skied. Waxed the skis to see if doing so provides any additional benefit, and to eliminate the exercise if said advantage doesn’t show up.

We’ll see....

PS:
Pugski, took your advice on the old E88’s and put them on a strict ice only diet. Problem is, no ice days presented since!

 

[Started at 53]

Funny, I had a guy take a few runs on my Bomber Pro Terrain Phantomized skis today, he came back and said they were the fastest skis had ever been on. His normal skis are Volkl and has wax done at the ski shop in PC. He had never heard of Phantom wax before

 

[gilgamesh0]

One thing I keep wondering about -- these treatments are intended to truly fully combine chemically with the base material (which is very cool no doubt), but of course then the results can be finicky if the application is not just right (and other considerations like shelf life for the case of the air-cured Giga Glide). Why then is Phantom a treatment in bottles that has to be shipped, applied, cured in a dedicated station or sufficient sunlight etc., rather than just being an upgraded base material - e.g. slick new P-Tex++ ("now with no waxing required!")?

Even if pre-treated in manufacturing, that still seems somewhat different than just making skis with a different base material altogether (though I guess it would still be useful to have the application available as well, to use for existing skis with conventional base material).

Is it a technical thing, or is it all industry/business considerations that led to it happening this way? And/or is P-Tex Plus indeed on the way?

 

[nemesis256]

Recently bought 2 packages of Phantom, one for the pair of skis I use in the spring (for the claim that it works better on spring snow) and second for my touring skis (which I rarely wax to not get wax on my skins). Only applied Phantom to my "spring" skis so far. I didn't clean out my skis as much as the instructions want you to. It had only been one ski day since I last waxed them, and I only used citrus degreaser to clean the bases, no base grind. Part A was very white after curing it. brushed the crap out of it. Part B went on a little differently, it kind of pooled on the bases, just like you would expect water to do on waxed skis. Part B did not come out nearly as white after curing. Brushed the crap out of that one as well.

Skied them today in spring conditions, although not perfect corn. Some of the snow on the mountain had warmed up for the first time and hadn't gone through enough freeze/thaw cycles to make really good corn. I didn't feel much of a difference with the Phantomed skis. Did not feel the stickiness people describe in the lift line at all. The not perfect corn still felt sticky in places. Towards the end of my time at the mountain, when there were a few sections of wet snow with puddles, I don't think I got slowed down quite as much as I'm used to.

Hopefully my laziness in pre-cleaning them well won't be a problem.

 

[Jacques]

Recently bought 2 packages of Phantom, one for the pair of skis I use in the spring (for the claim that it works better on spring snow) and second for my touring skis (which I rarely wax to not get wax on my skins). Only applied Phantom to my "spring" skis so far. I didn't clean out my skis as much as the instructions want you to. It had only been one ski day since I last waxed them, and I only used citrus degreaser to clean the bases, no base grind. Part A was very white after curing it. brushed the crap out of it. Part B went on a little differently, it kind of pooled on the bases, just like you would expect water to do on waxed skis. Part B did not come out nearly as white after curing. Brushed the crap out of that one as well.

Skied them today in spring conditions, although not perfect corn. Some of the snow on the mountain had warmed up for the first time and hadn't gone through enough freeze/thaw cycles to make really good corn. I didn't feel much of a difference with the Phantomed skis. Did not feel the stickiness people describe in the lift line at all. The not perfect corn still felt sticky in places. Towards the end of my time at the mountain, when there were a few sections of wet snow with puddles, I don't think I got slowed down quite as much as I'm used to.

Hopefully my laziness in pre-cleaning them well won't be a problem.

For comparing, did you ever use fluoro waxes prior?
I know most say the stuff will compete with a "universal wax"
For wet snow, fluoro waxes will help along with a good base structure.

 

[nemesis256]

For comparing, did you ever use fluoro waxes prior?
I know most say the stuff will compete with a "universal wax"
For wet snow, fluoro waxes will help along with a good base structure.

No, just basic dominator zoom. Fluoro is nasty stuff to the environment, I don't touch that.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

I put phantom 2.0 on my wife's skis about a month ago. It was at least an order of magnitude easier to apply, and it did not have the issue where it took 5k vertical to "work itself in". At DPS riders weekend I talked to a phantom tester with the company and when I remarked I had well over 100 days with Phantom 1.0 he said he was impressed and that I must have had a good cure (I let my skis sit out for an entire day in a cloudless sky).

I have two new sets of skis (2019 DPS Lotus Alchemist and 2020 M5 Mantra's). I am waiting for this summer to see if they release a 3.0 iteration of Phantom before dropping $200 to phantomize them both, but it WILL happen. After demoing a ton of skis this season, I can tell I hate the feeling of waxed skis now, slippery in the lift lines and a little more inconsistent on the slopes. I skied my Lotus this weekend in powder, and they were still on factory wax, it wasn't great.

At this point, in my opinion you are crazy if you don't have Phantom on your daily driver (especially if you are lazy and don't wax your skis every time out). It's just too good, and 2.0 is trivial to apply.

 

[ScottB]

The thing I have come to like about Phantom the most is you can't go wrong, no matter what the conditions. Having the wrong wax and sticky skis is a thing of the past. (unless the application doesn't go well) I don't have to think about what wax to use. I still like working on my skis and drinking beer, I just sharpen them now, and skip the hot wax step.

 

[Mendieta]

The thing I have come to like about Phantom the most is you can't go wrong, no matter what the conditions. Having the wrong wax and sticky skis is a thing of the past. (unless the application doesn't go well) I don't have to think about what wax to use. I still like working on my skis and drinking beer, I just sharpen them now, and skip the hot wax step.

That's exactly my use case. This thread (and a couple related threads) has (have) been really useful to me. Thank you all for sharing. I just got a couple new skis for the family. I'll be phantom-izing them in the Summer.

By the way, I only used a Phantom ski once, last year in Spring. That ski did really well in comparison to freshly waxed skis (courtesy of @Andy Mink in the Rose year end Party). And I, like you, see clear value in keeping the edges sharp. It takes me less time than waxing, and it has a lot higher impact in my experience as a skier. I will keep doing that, but my (typically weekly ski prep) will be much shorter

As a bonus, I can still wax, now and then, for extra base protection. Is all good. I have the wax and the iron.

 

[EricG]

It really seems like phantom might make life really easy.

How does this work if you need to get your bases ground? Do you need to reapply?

 

[Andy Mink]

It really seems like phantom might make life really easy.

How does this work if you need to get your bases ground? Do you need to reapply?

No need to reapply. The Phantom penetrates the base material. A grind just freshens it up, according to DPS. After skiing the original test ski that @Philpug got before and after a grind I didn't experience a loss in performance.

 

[EricG]

No need to reapply. The Phantom penetrates the base material. A grind just freshens it up, according to DPS. After skiing the original test ski that @Philpug got before and after a grind I didn't experience a loss in performance.

Thankyou. I figured the answer was somewhere in the 34 pages, but I was being lazy.

 

[Scruffy]

How many grinds can one expect to get per application?

 

[Andy Mink]

How many grinds can one expect to get per application?

All the way through to the core. As many as what you'd get normally. DPS claims it permeates the thickness of the base.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

How many grinds can one expect to get per application?

I'm on my fourth base grind using Phantom 1.0. But I'm getting ready to retire those skis to "rock" duty (they're at 200+ days). Got new sticks for next season.

 

[Tom K.]

I am waiting for this summer to see if they release a 3.0 iteration of Phantom.

Same. After lurking in the background and munching popcorn, I'm ready to take the plunge, but FOMO of a 3.0 coming down the pike will probably see me waiting until September or October.

Great price: https://www.ebay.com/i/273743934120?chn=ps

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

Same. After lurking in the background and munching popcorn, I'm ready to take the plunge, but FOMO of a 3.0 coming down the pike will probably see me waiting until September or October.

Great price: https://www.ebay.com/i/273743934120?chn=ps

That IS a good price. I'm gonna visit DPS for dreamtime this summer, not sure if it will be on sale, but I'll be able to ask at least.

 

[Tekweezle]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/303109680527

Somebody is selling this for $45. No indication if this is 1.0 or 2.0. Anybody take a chance on this? $45 is about the cost of an edge and wax at some resorts.

 

[Sibhusky]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/303109680527

Somebody is selling this for $45. No indication if this is 1.0 or 2.0. Anybody take a chance on this? $45 is about the cost of an edge and wax at some resorts.

I feel like I remember expiration dates being applicable? Maybe these are reaching end of life?

 

[crgildart]

How many grinds can one expect to get per application?

All the way through to the core. As many as what you'd get normally. DPS claims it permeates the thickness of the base.

Then why would it EVER have to be reapplied. Is it good for 500 ski days and say 15 grinds if someone's willing to push a ski that far? Would the Phantom 2.0 still be as good as it was the day after originally applied?