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Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment
- Thread starter Philpug
- Start date
They're only waxing if phantom doesn't seem to be working for them. (And one person at least that had a shop apply phantom, and then still wax them for some reason. )
As described to me by the shop Mgr at The Mud Room in Jackson Hole which I also covered further up in the thread:
- There are two ski-to-snow kinds of friction to be overcome. I forget the exact terms he used, but the first was something like static friction, the friction to be overcome when you want the ski to get going from a dead stop. Wax excels in this situation. In fact, others have commented on noticing that the Phantomized skis seem to stick to the snow in lifelines.
-The other he called something like gliding friction, the ongoing tendency of the ski wanting to resist continued forward movement in the snow. Phantom excels at countering this kind of friction.
- Waxing the ski provides optimum glide in both situations.
- A Phantomized ski is better than a dry ski in all situations.
- A Phantomized ski will "look" dry, so wax covers that.
- On cold snow, under 20 degrees F, wax has better glide.
- On warm snow, like spring snow, Phantom has better glide. He said I'm really going to love the Phantomized skis on Mammoth's sticky spring snow. In fact, waxing the ski in that situation might be counterproductive.
- I have taken these points as license to stop taking along my wax iron. I've always found it very inconvenient to scrape wax in most of the hotel rooms or condos I stay in, so this has simplified packing for ski trips considerably. Now I carry a small liquid wax applicator for occasional use.
Andy Mink
Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Moderator
SkiTalk Tester
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Phantom works as well as a good all-temp wax. If you want a bit more performance and have the time and equipment you can wax over it. Some choose to, others choose not too. But it's always as good as an all-temp.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2018
- Posts
- 106
I have 60+ days on Phantom (1.0), 25 days last season, and 40 this season so far. I have not put any wax on my skis, and only get my edges sharpened and bindings checked out every few weeks. I am still out-gliding people regularly on the flats. I do agree that when it is super cold out (single digits and below) that I feel a little sluggish compared to when it's a little warmer, but it feels like a 10-15% difference at most, but that is my subjective opinion.
Yesterday at Sundance it was *warm*, like 40 degrees. I went night skiing and my skis felt much faster than usual (+25% a day with 20 degree temps), phantom does truly seem to excel in wetter softer snow. I remember that while spring skiing last season, but again, I skied Sunday and it was freezing, so I got kind of a "night and day" difference in a very short amount of time.
I am getting ready to phantomize my wife and daughters skis, but we're waiting for a solid patch of sunny days in the forecast, and Utah hasn't had much of that in a long time.
Yesterday at Sundance it was *warm*, like 40 degrees. I went night skiing and my skis felt much faster than usual (+25% a day with 20 degree temps), phantom does truly seem to excel in wetter softer snow. I remember that while spring skiing last season, but again, I skied Sunday and it was freezing, so I got kind of a "night and day" difference in a very short amount of time.
I am getting ready to phantomize my wife and daughters skis, but we're waiting for a solid patch of sunny days in the forecast, and Utah hasn't had much of that in a long time.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2018
- Posts
- 31
I'm still curious about longevity. As far as I can tell, there are two broad purposes for ski waxing: 1) to improve the glide on snow, and 2) to help protect the ski base from degrading over time due to a) friction from the snow, and b) purported "drying out" during storage (hence, storage wax).
The official marketing for Phantom (and Giga Glide for that matter) seems to discuss only 1).. and based on returns so far, for most folks it seems to be doing the job well (if applied right etc.). But they don't seem to say anything explicitly re 2). Is the tradeoff for gliding without regular waxing, a quicker wearing out of your ski bases? Maybe it's still a little early for feedback on that?
It does just seem intuitively to be less likely to provide as much (if any) of that protection, since the whole point is that it fully combines with the base material rather than also providing a layer above like wax. (And the suggestion from DPS to do a base grind when seeing the gray layer folks are reporting, seems a bit discouraging :O.) But of course that's just speculation, I'm no physical chemist. Maybe the change to the base material is such that it wears less or a lot less, due to reduced friction (I can see how that could be)..?
The official marketing for Phantom (and Giga Glide for that matter) seems to discuss only 1).. and based on returns so far, for most folks it seems to be doing the job well (if applied right etc.). But they don't seem to say anything explicitly re 2). Is the tradeoff for gliding without regular waxing, a quicker wearing out of your ski bases? Maybe it's still a little early for feedback on that?
It does just seem intuitively to be less likely to provide as much (if any) of that protection, since the whole point is that it fully combines with the base material rather than also providing a layer above like wax. (And the suggestion from DPS to do a base grind when seeing the gray layer folks are reporting, seems a bit discouraging :O.) But of course that's just speculation, I'm no physical chemist. Maybe the change to the base material is such that it wears less or a lot less, due to reduced friction (I can see how that could be)..?
I am on my 2nd year of Phantom (close to 50 days on my daily driver), not seeing any base issues, and the skis are just as fast was when they were first Phantomized.
Andy Mink
Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Moderator
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
My wife's Phantomized skis worked well at Big Sky in temps from near 0°F to the mid 30s over 6 days. I noticed as the days wore on my waxed skis started not gliding as well since I didn't keep up on waxing.
I think if you're going out of town and won't have access to your waxing gear it's a good investment.
I think if you're going out of town and won't have access to your waxing gear it's a good investment.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2018
- Posts
- 31
Nice, that's encouraging. Did you bother with storage wax in the offseason?
No, but I store them in my man cave, so inside the house if that matters
I stopped using storage wax years ago. They are stored in a dry, warm, room. They've been fine.
Still you would be well served to lay on a storage wax.
Wax does dry up after a long time.
The dry layer will need to be removed for best result for re-waxing.
If you don't apply a storage wax, you will need to use some Glide Wax Cleaner at least to remove the old dry wax.
More triva: Storage wax should always be removed from the edges of the skis prior to storage.
Jacques, they go through a rigorous preseason tune. They are usually glossy when I start that. Then I use the steel brush and start hot scraping. Then they get layers of wax on top of that. They are fine.
" More triva: Storage wax should always be removed from the edges of the skis prior to storage."
Do say more........
Do say more........
Ha ha. Trapped moisture under crackling wax makes for a rust garden!
I am blessed to live in high desert where things stay very dry for the most part! Some are not so lucky!
Jacques, my experience is just the opposite.
I put a very heavy coat of very soft wax on the edges to make sure they don't rust.
Rub it on hard in a thin coat then hot wax over it.
The wax doesn't crack and leaves a waxy film on the steel which greatly reduces rust.
Works for me in Michigan's climate and wax based rust inhibitors are used throughout the steel fabrication industry.
I put a very heavy coat of very soft wax on the edges to make sure they don't rust.
Rub it on hard in a thin coat then hot wax over it.
The wax doesn't crack and leaves a waxy film on the steel which greatly reduces rust.
Works for me in Michigan's climate and wax based rust inhibitors are used throughout the steel fabrication industry.
Hmmmm...............I'd go for rubbing on some wax on the edges more than leaving a thick coat from ironing.
Anyway, I have seen edges rust quite a bit from wax left on them when I lived on the coast where it was quite humid.
I have never in my life waxed my skis, once every couple seasons my buddy Dibs can’t stand it and steals them for a wax and file. My bases have been pretty trashed for a while although no core shots.
They were Phantomed (shop, in the box) in that condition, scratches and all. I usually have ski tracks running most days, during my ski days I consistently go through the same flats. I picked up about 3 mph on normal days. After about 25 days my buddy took them and had a grind and tune done at the shop where he works. They were ground deep enough to get them perfectly flat, yet they remained as fast as before. It definitely soaks into the base and survives a grind.
They were Phantomed (shop, in the box) in that condition, scratches and all. I usually have ski tracks running most days, during my ski days I consistently go through the same flats. I picked up about 3 mph on normal days. After about 25 days my buddy took them and had a grind and tune done at the shop where he works. They were ground deep enough to get them perfectly flat, yet they remained as fast as before. It definitely soaks into the base and survives a grind.
