Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[ScottB]

I have skied a Phantom ski in really cold temp's and I felt the glide was still very good. It is a little different in different snow conditions and temp's, but as a general statement I always felt I had good glide. One good thing about Phantom is you can wax over it, as Phil suggested and it doesn't change the Phantom at all. If cold temp wax improves your glide, use it if you want to, to get an additional improvement. I personally never bothered.

In terms of base burn, I believe that wax helps with that by adding some lubrication to the ski bottom. I don't think Phantom makes things any better like wax does. It won't wear off or make it worse, but it doesn't help at all, either. You can always add wax to help with base burn. If you get base burn, the Phantom will still be working, but the increased drag from friction might be real? I put it on my skis last season and didn't have any issues with base burn, so I don't have any experience to share.

In terms of the bottom being shiny, my experience agrees with what Phil described exactly. Dull bottoms still had good glide and didn't bother me.

 

[Noodler]

Thanks for the answers guys.

 

[Monique]

Ski shops that sell the Phantom coating are turning their ski waxing customers into non customers, so the shop is getting out of the waxing business, at least to some extent.

If someone wants Phantom, they'll pay for it. Better to offer the service than lose that customer entirely.

 

[cantunamunch]

The undercoating add on for the 21st century

 

[SBrown]

Well, I just ordered an application on a new pair of skis, new 100Eights that will have Shifts on them, so it will be a hybrid in-and-outtabounds setup. I heard good things about Phantom not getting globbed up with skin glue, so I'll report back when I can.

 

[cosmoliu]

The shop manager in JH I spoke with at length about Phantom said that it also avoids the issue of conventional wax contaminating the skin glue, potentially prolonging the useful life of the skins.

 

[VickieH]

Dropped my skis off today for Phantom-ing. REI in Denver has a Phantom Cure Station. $160 including the base grind, so they're charging $35 over what it would cost me to do it myself.

Plan A was to recruit @Started at 53 for the work. I figured it wouldn't take long before he'd be climbing the walls and happy to do anything ski-related. But he fled the country so I had to invoke Plan B.

 

[Started at 53]

Dropped my skis off today for Phantom-ing. REI in Denver has a Phantom Cure Station. $160 including the base grind, so they're charging $35 over what it would cost me to do it myself.

Plan A was to recruit @Started at 53 for the work. I figured it wouldn't take long before he'd be climbing the walls and happy to do anything ski-related. But he fled the country so I had to invoke Plan B.

Plan B is a good choice. I took Betsy’s new skis to be cured at the local curing station in PC.

I am glad I am no where near a ski area (I am not skiing in Dubai this week) as I would be inclined to ski the lesson area bunny slope. I certainly would have done something stupid, matter of fact I was looking at flights to ski for two days in between work days while I am in Orlando in early February. I should not book those flights, I should not book those flights, I REALLY should not book those flights.

But I want to book those flights.

You will love the Phantom

 

[cosmoliu]

Several more days on my SR88s last week at Snowbird and I'm still impressed with the feel. I plan to take two more pairs of skis (five total) to the shop in Park City when I'm there the first week of March. That should do it for now...Until there's a new pair to treat.

 

[Coach13]

Well, I just ordered an application on a new pair of skis, new 100Eights that will have Shifts on them, so it will be a hybrid in-and-outtabounds setup. I heard good things about Phantom not getting globbed up with skin glue, so I'll report back when I can.

Any update as to how you feel about Phantom?

 

[Unmarkedobstacles]

Time to chime in on this thread. I watched all of the Phantom hoopla for year 1 to see what real people were saying and results seemed encouraging. This year Phantom 2.0 came out and I decided that it was time to give it a go. It's been a bit of an ordeal. Initially, I planned on the DIY route and ordered some from a popular online retailer. Being December, I was finding it hard to find enough bluebird days to get the correct amount of UV light to cure the two parts.

So in looking for alternatives to natural UV cures, I discovered the video that introduced that cure stations were now available in some local shops. So off I went to the one local shop that has the station, and laid down another $99 for the product and $50 for application. The results were less than encouraging for sure. The shop had warned that it might take a few runs for excess product to wear off and that may cause initially slow skis. Five days and approximately 100K vertical feet later, things were going really bad. It was a real drag in just about all conditions and my ski buddies had resorted to calling me Pokey. I contacted DPS and product manager Nick did his best to discover a solution. His first suggestion was to ask the shop to do a base grind to "refresh" the surface. He arranged for that to happen.

A few days later, I retrieved my skis from the Phantom capable shop and found that they did not have a base grinder, so they simply reapplied the Phantom treatment. That shop also blamed everyone in the world except for themselves for the trouble. Took the skis out for a day and it was a "no go", literally. Gave it about five runs, one being a straight-line in Alpine Bowl at a speed of 16 mph. This time I took the skis to my regular shop and had a base grind done (but no additional wax applied).

The first few days, everything seemed pretty normal and life was good. But by about day 7 and another 100K feet, life is a drag again and my name reverted from Snake Oil to Pokey. This morning I went ahead and hot waxed again. Thank god.

I wonder how much of the Phantom success stories is just people wanting to believe that "this has to be working" because I just spent $99 on it. There's a sucker born every minute, and this time I was one of that crowd.

FWIW, I have the original kit for DIY application (sans box) available if someone wants to claim it, free, at Alpine Meadows. The weather conditions for DIY application look primo for the next two weeks.

 

[cosmoliu]

Hmmm... Placebo effect. Sounds plausible. I'll need to work that out as a possibility.

 

[ScottB]

I think you should send your skis and your package to DPS and have them sort this out for you. I have done 7 skis and it worked for me. I will say the 4 I did the first year worked better than the 3 I did this year. The difference this year is lots of residue and slow skis till I skied it off. DPS says they improved (changed) the product this year. I had better results with the original formulation. I did 2 of my skis this year and both were sticky the first day out. Both seem much better the second day. I think the instructions changed a little this year. I followed the original instructions.

 

[Unmarkedobstacles]

I think you should send your skis and your package to DPS and have them sort this out for you.

Send them to Phantom? At whose cost? For those keeping track, I've already spent $248 plus tax. Plus...those are my new "everyday" skis...I don't really want to spend the season on just my pow skis and tele skis while they "sort it out". I ski every day, so its not like I can just send them in between trips!

 

[ScottB]

OK, I should have added, call DPS and tell them you want to ship your skis back at their cost. Or just ask what they will do to make this right. I have talked to them a lot and they seem like they want to stand behind their product. As a matter of fact, they called me last year on their own to ask how the Phantom was working and if I needed anything from them. I do have a pro deal with them which might have made a difference, but I have no affiliation with them, I am a coach for a youth race team.

I hear you about giving up your skis, that is a problem without an easy answer, except maybe find a local DPS rep and have him give you some loaner skis. I have had my local DPS rep give me several skis for the weekend to try out. Its one of the things they do. They are a smallish company and seem to still care about customer satisfaction.

Sorry to hear the Phantom isn't working for you. Waxing was a good idea and maybe they will work better after the wax (and residue) wears off.

 

[Jim McDonald]

I want to believe; I really do.
Was on the gondola a few days ago with a pal who hadn't skied for almost 10 years (after wrecking his ACL) and started telling him about Phantom as possibly a great thing for we who don't have time, space or inclination for waxing.
Young guy chimes in to say it's useless, he's a shop rat and his shop has tested it and it doesn't work, you still have to wax, Phantom alone will leave your skis slow, etc. etc.
Thanked him for his input; unsure just how accurately it reflects reality.
But there seem to be a lot of tales of woe, like that of @Unmarkedobstacles.
Are there major differences in sintered bases that could account for the very wide variance in experiences?
I want to believe, but...

 

[Andy Mink]

I want to believe, but...

I can only tell of my experience with Phantom. First is a test ski that was Phantomed at DPS and was in @Philpug's test fleet. It worked as well as any ski that had multi-temp wax over conditions ranging from very cold fresh to near swampy spring conditions. My son now has that ski and is still happy with the performance. It is a Foundation Cassiar 95. My wife also has it on her K2 Fulluvits. I applied the original 2 stage formula last season. She skied them on a nice powder day this past weekend and said they worked very well. Again, as well as a multi-temp wax. From what I've experienced I can only guess that there was a glitch in the application process on @Unmarkedobstacles' skis. If it was applied without a thorough cleaning the first time it probably didn't bond correctly. Applying it a second time (if I understood that correctly) would just make a bad situation worse, as apparently happened. Very frustrating, no doubt.

And I'll be glad to take the Phantom off @Unmarkedobstacles' hands if no one else claims it.

 

[Unmarkedobstacles]

Sorry Andy, another Alpine guy jumped on the opportunity pretty quick.

I think your assessment of incorrect application is probably correct. Since DPS suggests that a base grind is the best way to pre-clean the base, I would have thought they would do it beforehand. Given that the shop in question does not even have a base grinder, you would think they would have suggested that I take it elsewhere for a base grind first.

I certainly looked to your and Phil's assessment of the product before I made the leap...and like you indicated, I know two other people that seem to think its doing okay (although one had trouble with the initial application).

 

[Andy Mink]

Sorry Andy, another Alpine guy jumped on the opportunity pretty quick.

I think your assessment of incorrect application is probably correct. Since DPS suggests that a base grind is the best way to pre-clean the base, I would have thought they would do it beforehand. Given that the shop in question does not even have a base grinder, you would think they would have suggested that I take it elsewhere for a base grind first.

I certainly looked to your and Phil's assessment of the product before I made the leap...and like you indicated, I know two other people that seem to think its doing okay (although one had trouble with the initial application).

It's really weird that after the grind it got worse and worse. Hopefully no long term compromising of the base of your skis. When I did my wife's I used wax remover a couple of times to get it clean. Seems to have worked. Bummer the shop didn't let you know they don't have a grinder. Maybe Cooper at @smoothrides would have a thought on the problem.

 

[steve pickard]

Time for my assessment of the Phantom 2.0 application after skiing on it about 6 days in varying conditions with the exception of spring conditions. I applied it to a new pair of Enforcer 100' s this summer. I read the instructions very carefully for fear of screwing up. Even though they're brand new skis I cleaned the bases several times in order to get all the wax off. I think this is vital in order for Phantom to penetrate into the base. Also I had the advantage of the summer sun for curing the treatment.

As for the results. The skis did seem a little slow at first as DPS said it would but seemed to improve after a couple of runs. To kind of test the effectiveness of Phantom I would race a friend of mine in the flat run outs back to the Disney Chair at Sugar Bowl. He was on Enforcer 93's with fresh all temp wax. Well he was winning by a large margin at first now we're running about even. Overall I've been satisfied with the glide of the skis and happy with there performance. The next test will be how it works in the spring slush. So far so good.

As for those of you who have had trouble I think it is imperative that the bases are clean and the curing is spot on.