Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[PTskier]

$99.99
For one pair of skis, or more than one pair?
$99.99 for each pair in the quiver?.....

 

[E221b]

$99 per pair of skis, but it actually penetrates the bases so it’s supposed to be a one-time application. I plunked down my money for 2 packets, so we’ll see. I’m pretty psyched based on what I’ve heard!

 

[cantunamunch]

I will. One of the selling aspects of the Phantom is how it gets into the base and grinding it jsut rejuvenates the treatment.

Back to my earlier question, does it also get into sidewalls? Does it get into extruded bases? If yes to either, that's sales right there.

 

[E221b]

I listened to the Blister podcast where they talked to the developers at DPS and yes it works with both sintered and extruded bases, tho in the words of the DPS rep, if you put a crap base in (i.e., extruded), then you'll get crap out (crap being relative -- the treatment still works). Also, on many test skis, they apparently skied better after being stoneground (after the Phantom had been applied)

 

[Magi]

Back to my earlier question, does it also get into sidewalls? Does it get into extruded bases? If yes to either, that's sales right there.

Extruded bases are covered in the Blistergear Podcast that talked about Phantom. The DPS folks take was that 99% of their testing was on sintered bases, that extruded bases glide poorly (relative to sintered), and that testing Phantom shows that Extruded bases glide better with Phantom, but they're still extruded bases. "Garbage in, garbage out" is a direct quote.

 

[cantunamunch]

That's a shame...there's an entire market segment, including supershort skis and budget boutique skis and knockaround XCD skis that will simply never get sintered bases. And if extruded bases aren't really suited to Phantom, sidewalls will be very questionable.

Oh well, saves me money

 

[neonorchid]

That's a shame...there's an entire market segment, including supershort skis and budget boutique skis and knockaround XCD skis that will simply never get sintered bases. And if extruded bases aren't really suited to Phantom, sidewalls will be very questionable.

Oh well, saves me money

Or stop wasting your money on skis with an extruded base.

 

[Jacques]

I listened to the Blister podcast where they talked to the developers at DPS and yes it works with both sintered and extruded bases, tho in the words of the DPS rep, if you put a crap base in (i.e., extruded), then you'll get crap out (crap being relative -- the treatment still works). Also, on many test skis, they apparently skied better after being stoneground (after the Phantom had been applied)

So could it be that during a stone grind, that the structure is improved to provide a better glide and one thinks it is the juice?
Structure of a base is paramount to it's glide as long as it is for the given snow conditions.

 

[Jacques]

Extruded bases are covered in the Blistergear Podcast that talked about Phantom. The DPS folks take was that 99% of their testing was on sintered bases, that extruded bases glide poorly (relative to sintered), and that testing Phantom shows that Extruded bases glide better with Phantom, but they're still extruded bases. "Garbage in, garbage out" is a direct quote.

Well I guess that counts out skis like Dynastar, unless it's their race skis.

 

[eok]

That's a shame...there's an entire market segment, including supershort skis and budget boutique skis and knockaround XCD skis that will simply never get sintered bases. And if extruded bases aren't really suited to Phantom, sidewalls will be very questionable.

Oh well, saves me money

It seemed to me that DPS made it pretty clear that the product did work on extruded bases and (I'm assuming) provided good/desirable glide - but not to the point where it's equal to the performance of sintered bases treated with the product. I'd still like to see some feedback on tests of Phantom with extruded bases & hdpe sidewalls.

 

[Jacques]

That's a shame...there's an entire market segment, including supershort skis and budget boutique skis and knockaround XCD skis that will simply never get sintered bases. And if extruded bases aren't really suited to Phantom, sidewalls will be very questionable.

Oh well, saves me money

That's going to depend on the sidewall makeup. UHMW, OK, ABS, I don't think so.

 

[cantunamunch]

That's going to depend on the sidewall makeup. UHMW, OK, ABS, I don't think so.

Of course it will. I'm not prepared to say no just based on overall material composition - we still put Armorall/404/mystery goop on car dashboards and Royalex canoes/kayaks and ...

Or stop wasting your money on skis with an extruded base.

Because so many of the skis I'm interested in come with sintered bases?

 

[Magi]

It seemed to me that DPS made it pretty clear that the product did work on extruded bases and (I'm assuming) provided good/desirable glide - but not to the point where it's equal to the performance of sintered bases treated with the product. I'd still like to see some feedback on tests of Phantom with extruded bases & hdpe sidewalls.

Seconding this takeaway.

WRT the Extruded vs Sintered - the product affects the chemistry of UHMWPE. That's the same stuff in extruded AND sintered bases - Phantom's glide on an extruded base should be equivalent to a universal temp hydrocarbon wax applied to an extruded base.

 

[neonorchid]

Because so many of the skis I'm interested in come with sintered bases?

Really? Which?

 

[cantunamunch]

Really? Which?

Not sure about the Voile - pretty much all the others (G3, Madshus, Asnes, Fischer, Rossi, Altai) are not.

 

[neonorchid]

Not sure about the Voile - pretty much all the others (G3, Madshus, Asnes, Fischer, Rossi, Altai) are not.

So your BC XC gear. Voile should be stintered, I'm surprised G3 isn't. I think Fischer is stintered, the full metal edge S-Bounds and Silent Spider's I have can be hot waxed, my Rossi BC--65's can't and also scratch much easier than the Fischers. I doubt I'd apply Phantom to any them. I've too many warm ground, warm air and wet snow days where it clumps to the bottom of the ski to use anything but a warm weather specific wax. However, I'd consider it for the Alpine skis, although I'm not looking to be an early adopter, spent too much booking trips that the "Bitch About" thread people are making me F'ing nuts about!

 

[trailtrimmer]

I'm not prepared to say no just based on overall material composition - we still put Armorall/404/mystery goop on car dashboards and Royalex canoes/kayaks and ...

This is why I'm going to hold off on trying it for $100. My guess is the product is derived from something that already exists and is just broken down into small packets and fancy marketing. Just like all the flouro powders can be purchased in bulk for the same price as the little bottles, you just need to know what you are looking for.

 

[RuleMiHa]

Back to my earlier question, does it also get into sidewalls? Does it get into extruded bases? If yes to either, that's sales right there.

(Stupid question) Could you explain why you care whether Phantom gets into sidewalls? I thought waxing was about bases.

 

[cantunamunch]

(Stupid question) Could you explain why you care whether Phantom gets into sidewalls? I thought waxing was about bases.

Think about highly edged skis that aren't being used on completely hardened, even surfaced snow. Most stick figure diagrams will show the force onto the snow (and the reaction force back up) as being through the bases, but this is an oversimplification. The force normal to the snow surface is exactly the same as it would be if the ski weren't edged at all, and it's applied to the tiny area of edge and sidewall.

The second case is that of a ski sinking in powder especially during turns. It is not as dramatic as the first case because the total force is distributed over a greater area.

All of these become even worse in high friction snow, such as fresh snow below - 10F (think northern tier or Eastern Canada) or such as man-made snow fresh out of the guns that hasn't been allowed to sit for 24 hrs+ (Think southern resorts trying to make snow over a short snowmaking interval, especially early season).

There are a few products on the market already (Holmenkol sidewall juice frex) but I am of the more is better mindset.

 

[cantunamunch]

. I think Fischer is stintered, the full metal edge S-Bounds and Silent Spider's I have can be hot waxed, my Rossi BC--65's can't and also scratch much easier than the Fischers. I doubt I'd apply Phantom to any them. I've too many warm ground, warm air and wet snow days where it clumps to the bottom of the ski to use anything but a warm weather specific wax. However, I'd consider it for the Alpine skis, although I'm not looking to be an early adopter, spent too much booking trips that the "Bitch About" thread people are making me F'ing nuts about!

I have a pair of Silent Spiders too; I was thinking of fatter models with die cut extruded inserts. Certainly the current pricing is not exciting for this application (*grin *)