Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[David Chaus]

I think the bigger issue is how I feel about it. I mean, it’s all well and good to get excited about a new product, and I’m hoping the Phantom will work as advertised and as reported by others, but still.......to head out on the slopes without any wax for the first time.....makes me pause a little.

 

[Monique]

I think the bigger issue is how I feel about it. I mean, it’s all well and good to get excited about a new product, and I’m hoping the Phantom will work as advertised and as reported by others, but still.......to head out on the slopes without any wax for the first time.....makes me pause a little.

Yeah. I get it.

 

[ScottB]

I phantom'd 4 pairs of skis last season. Didn't wax any of them and they all worked beautifully from the first run on. Put some wax in your pocket if it will make you feel better.

 

[Jacques]

I think the bigger issue is how I feel about it. I mean, it’s all well and good to get excited about a new product, and I’m hoping the Phantom will work as advertised and as reported by others, but still.......to head out on the slopes without any wax for the first time.....makes me pause a little.

Don't wax them. That's the whole point.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Don't wax them. That's the whole point.

True, but DPS even says they'll go grey. I'm really to curious if the grey is base burn or just color. Someone has got to not wax and not grind a pair so we can find out.

 

[Dwight]

If I try it, I will not grind or wax the whole season. Now I have to decide if I really wan to try Phantom. I would be more prone to put it on a friends pair of skis and not tell him.

 

[Andy Mink]

I got to thinking about the base color change after sitting during the summer. My wife's K2s have Phantom on them. I pulled them apart and WOW! They turned yellow!

OK, just kidding. But the black parts still look OK.

 

[Sibhusky]

? Sarcasm? They look fine.

 

[Andy Mink]

? Sarcasm? They look fine.

Just joking since there was a question about what they'd look like without summer wax. The black parts of the base haven't discolored any more than skis that have storage wax on them.

 

[Sibhusky]

No DPS. No "storage wax".

Older skis (140+ days), after ten days skiing, no storage wax, no brushing for camera. (Those ten days were powder, tho. We had a good season. I was stunned to realize I put ten days on them, tho. Clearly lost track and they looked fine)

Older skis (174 days), tuned and waxed for skiing last season, not used after their tune. They needed a couple passes with a wire brush to take off wax that had oozed out since their tune. They are used on harder snow and take a beating. First picture didn't show the actual neon red, so took a second because of that. Area under boot needs more brushing, didn't look as good.

 

[Seldomski]

Would love to see a real study on the differences between waxed vs. DPS Phantom vs. unwaxed...

 

[Sibhusky]

I'm guessing we'd need a ballroom buffed slope, skis with a variety of different structures, with testing over different conditions (powder, wet snow, ice, man-made, etc.), no skier on them, just a straight shot aimed down the hill, maybe about a thousand foot run, race timing system, all identical skis with different wax statuses. Not an easy test.

I think @Primoz said they do it for cross country.

 

[Seldomski]

I don't think a useful test is impossible or necessarily cost prohibitive. What did they do to develop this stuff anyway? All theory and no testing? Testing doesn't need to involve a human on skis or even actual skis.

You could do something like @Sibhusky suggests - some skis with weights launched down a hill. But I am thinking even cheaper and perhaps less subject to random error. Also, launching down a hill a couple times is something a racer may care about, but not a recreational skier - who waxes every few days or few weeks and does runs at lower speeds.
Setup A): Use an indoor ski slope to control the conditions.
Setup B): Tow something that looks like a skier using a snowmobile. Put a load cell in there to get a measure of friction. Find a meadow and just run back and forth a bunch of times.
Setup C): Rig something to a rope tow lift that approximates a skier.
Setup D): ??

If you do it enough times, you should see a difference in performance. You should be able to say 'this has the least friction after xyz distance towed'. If you can't, either your test is bad (too much variability/error in the measurements) or there is no difference.

Will it be reflective of all real world conditions? No. But some sort of relative measure would be great to have.

 

[David Chaus]

So FWIW, I took my Renouns and Aattack demo bindings to the ski shop, the guy who checked me in said, “whoa, Renouns, cool!” So I guess he’d heard of them. And I mentioned I applied the Phantom, he took a moment, then realized he had heard about it and replied “you mean that waxless wax? Cool!”

I think I’ve decided to start the season without first waxing, just trust that the stuff works and that I didn’t f@#k it up. Since I’ve demoed the Renouns when they were waxed and tuned by Phil, I think I’d have a pretty good idea of how they should feel on the snow.

 

[ScottB]

Ok, I might be able to shed some light (or grey). Take this for what it is worth, ie. my experience with Phantom. I applied it to my Rossi Sl race ski and used it last season for about 20 days. Put it away at end of the season and took it out last night. I was surprised to see the black bottoms had turned somewhat grey. Hmmm. I scratched it with my finger nail and it came off. Then I brushed the bases and they were "shiney" black underneath. Checked another pair that had been waxed and no grey. Also took a pic of my 20 year old skis and they looked rough, but no grey. I don't know what it means, you guys tell me??? Here are the pic's.

Greyed ski, phantomed last season, 20 days skied, stored all summer

These are out of order, but I brushed my SL ski which took off the grey, waxed skis on the right, also stored all summer (no grey)

Greyed Sl ski after brushing with nylon brush

greyed Sl ski before brushing, I used my finger nail to rub off the grey

20 year old Elans

 

[Jacques]

Next time brush with steel and brass! Nylon won't cut that old dry stuff.
Good luck with the Phantom. If you never wax,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then it's better than nothing.

 

[Sibhusky]

Normally I'd say it was unbrushed wax coming out of the structure, except.... You didn't wax. Maybe Phantom does the same thing?

 

[Doug Briggs]

Thanks for the report, @ScottB .

The removable grey on the SL skis is interesting. Whatever you removed by brushing is probably either dust or some material exuded from the ski. In most cases I'd say exuded material is wax, but since you didn't... Were other skis stored in the same place also grey but turned black with brushing?

The 20 y.o. Elans just look 'hairy', not burned, but that could just be the photo. That could be from a belt finish without an adequate stone grind after.

I'll admit that I have some skis that never got summer storage wax on them and their bases are black and shiny just like I left them last spring. They are stored in my office so they don't have an opportunity to collect much dust. They are also waxed and brushed on a regular basis (after 2 or 3 sessions) so they are not prone to base burn.

Base burn is actual degradation of the plastic. When you look at it with magnification you can see pock marks and wear in the plastic itself. Brushing can reduce its appearance but only if it is just the absolute surface of the ski. Most base burn runs a bit deeper and needs a belt sanding or stone grind to eliminate it. I don't have any current skis with base burn to illustrate it.

 

[ScottB]

My SL ski with the grey coating had been waxed for about 5 seasons. When I cleaned the ski before applying the Phantom, wax came out of them. I used Swix Citrus ski cleaner (solvent I think). When I brushed out the Phantom, some wax came out to as small white particles. Maybe this is "dirty" wax still coming out. The other pairs I did were either new or freshly ground. So my guess is it is wax. It came off pretty easy too. I started with a brass brush, but that was too stiff and coarse and it worked much better with the nylon brush, which was denser bristle spacing and softer.

 

[Doug Briggs]

My SL ski with the grey coating had been waxed for about 5 seasons. When I cleaned the ski before applying the Phantom, wax came out of them. I used Swix Citrus ski cleaner (solvent I think). When I brushed out the Phantom, some wax came out to as small white particles. Maybe this is "dirty" wax still coming out. The other pairs I did were either new or freshly ground. So my guess is it is wax. It came off pretty easy too. I started with a brass brush, but that was too stiff and coarse and it worked much better with the nylon brush, which was denser bristle spacing and softer.

I'd tend to agree. That is what I've seen in skis that have sat around and definitely haven't been Phantomed.