Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[Sibhusky]

I think they and others here are saying, get over the grey color, it's just a color.. But if you can't, then grind them.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I think they and others here are saying, get over the grey color, it's just a color.. But if you can't, then grind them.

Why would a base change color from use if it wasn't physically changed/damaged? If the product is still there, why would the base change color? And if not base burn, what does the color change represent?

 

[Sibhusky]

Yes, I'd personally regard it as undesirable. But maybe there's no impact on actual performance as it changes color.

 

[Doug Briggs]

From DPS "Your skis or snowboard will retain a glossy black appearance after a Phantom application. After thirty days or so of use, any base material will begin to look “dry” as snow abrasion starts take its toll. At this point, a stone grind will freshen the appearance to new."

They are only saying 'look "dry"'. But if it is 'snow abrasion' as they say it is and it is changing the look of the base, there must be a de facto change in the material. I'd like to know more about that.

 

[PisteOff]

Yes, I'd personally regard it as undesirable. But maybe there's no impact on actual performance as it changes color.

They are only saying 'look "dry"'. But if it is 'snow abrasion' as they say it is and it is changing the look of the base, there must be a de facto change in the material. I'd like to know more about that.

That's basically what I am getting out of it...... If the base structure hasn't degraded and the performance of the "wax" hasn't deteriorated, than what is the issue and why grind? I'm not one to grind my bases anymore than I have to. How many bites do you get at that apple?

 

[Jacques]

I'd be interested to see what someone who really knows their waxes (i.e. you) thinks about Phantom as both a stand alone or, even more so, how it responds to having a wax applied over it and how it feels after that wax starts to degrade during the day. Knowing that some waxes can be pretty much gone after a few runs does Phantom give you the rest of the day on skis that are better than if the wax just wore down to the base with no treatment.

No evidence have I,........... BUT if the stuff really fills the amorphous areas of the base, then wax would only be a surface treatment that could not possibly last at all.
I don't even think wax would have any adhesion to a base after treated with the Phantom "of the opera"

All the joking (or not) put aside, I have many pair of skis and just might try it on a pair if I have funds left over.
Then I could take those with me everyday and test them with more conditional waxes on a multitude of given snow conditions.
Then again, their is base structure. I don't have any I could say have identical base structures.
It would be interesting to say the least.
Really, though.............I don't think it would be a fair test, as it may be impossible to get a wax remover to remove all wax from a ski that has been hotboxed with Base Renew and waxed a jillion times.

 

[Jacques]

That's basically what I am getting out of it...... If the base structure hasn't degraded and the performance of the "wax" hasn't deteriorated, than what is the issue and why grind? I'm not one to grind my bases anymore than I have to. How many bites do you get at that apple?

You can always skive the bases with a sharp steel scraper. This will take away way less base than a grind might. (depending)
I do that with a burred scraper and stiff wire brushes to create a broken liner structure. Works fine. At some point the ski gonna wear out anyway.

 

[Mendieta]

They are only saying 'look "dry"'. But if it is 'snow abrasion' as they say it is and it is changing the look of the base, there must be a de facto change in the material. I'd like to know more about that.

I really wonder if this is just a case of less than ideal writing by DPS in their materials. Wax or not, I still have to find any skis with bases that look good after 30 days of use. Actually, that's my typical season, and I do have them stone ground for the next one.

So, is the snow abrasion any worse with DPS and no wax than what you would see in a regularly waxed ski? They are not saying that, and it could be the case, but it could just be how we read it. It may sound more negative than it really is. I think @Philpug and some others might be able to ask them directly and clarify.

 

[Monique]

Wax or not, I still have to find any skis with bases that look good after 30 days of use. Actually, that's my typical season, and I do have them stone ground for the next one.

One reason to love white bases and/or bases with graphics ... you can't see the ugly ;-)

 

[Doug Briggs]

I really wonder if this is just a case of less than ideal writing by DPS in their materials.

I totally agree. Their words leave some interpretation to the reader.

Wax or not, I still have to find any skis with bases that look good after 30 days of use. Actually, that's my typical season, and I do have them stone ground for the next one.

My race skis don't get base burn as they are waxed for each use. We speed skiers hate having our bases ground because it removes all the hard work we go through getting our bases to run fast (wax, brush, ski, repeat until your arm falls off).

So, is the snow abrasion any worse with DPS and no wax than what you would see in a regularly waxed ski? They are not saying that, and it could be the case, but it could just be how we read it. It may sound more negative than it really is. I think @Philpug and some others might be able to ask them directly and clarify.

More to the point, does Phantom protect the bases in a way that is comparable to regular waxing. It just isn't clear what sort of protection Phantom provides the base material. IF (a big if at that) Phantom treated bases still get base burn, I don't see the advantage. I wax as much to protect my bases as to keep them gliding; base burn is not fast.

 

[Jacques]

I totally agree. Their words leave some interpretation to the reader.



My race skis don't get base burn as they are waxed for each use. We speed skiers hate having our bases ground because it removes all the hard work we go through getting our bases to run fast (wax, brush, ski, repeat until your arm falls off).



More to the point, does Phantom protect the bases in a way that is comparable to regular waxing. It just isn't clear what sort of protection Phantom provides the base material. IF (a big if at that) Phantom treated bases still get base burn, I don't see the advantage. I wax as much to protect my bases as to keep them gliding; base burn is not fast.

Going way back, the way I interpreted it was that when the bases of a Phantom treated base turned "grey" or what "we" call dry and possibly "hairy", that THEY said it would only be a cosmetic issue and the skis would run just as good as day one.
However...........since structure is so important...........THEY say a grind will "return" the bases to a new "glossy" condition.
I don't grind any skis very much, but when I do, I know they require much work to really bring them up to speed again. (see video cleaning) (see video breaking in)
Maybe a Phantom treated base will also need the work, just NO waxing. That right there, would still be a huge work, expense, and time saver.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Going way back, the way I interpreted it was that when the bases of a Phantom treated base turned "grey" or what "we" call dry and possibly "hairy", that THEY said it would only be a cosmetic issue and the skis would run just as good as day one.
However...........since structure is so important...........THEY say a grind will "return" the bases to a new "glossy" condition.
I don't grind any skis very much, but when I do, I know they require much work to really bring them up to speed again. (see video cleaning) (see video breaking in)
Maybe a Phantom treated base will also need the work, just NO waxing. That right there, would still be a huge work, expense, and time saver.

Only time and snow abrasion will tell.

 

[jzmtl]

Looks like MEC now sells this for $120.

 

[pchewn]

I took advantage of the recent cloud-free 80 degree weather to apply Phantom to 3 pairs of skis. We'll see how well it works in a couple of months.

 

[Dwight]

Might have to try this on pair of kids skis.

 

[David Chaus]

Here’s a few pics I took while applying Phantom 2.0 last Monday, on a brand-new pair of Renouns Z90’s. I called DPS and they agreed I didn’t need to do a base grind since they were new, but to use a base cleaner and wire brush. I used Zardoz citrus-based cleaner and new Swix bronze brush (so that it didn’t have any wax residue already on the brush). I actually did this 3 times until I was satisfied all the wax was removed.

This is just after applying part A (indoors, downstairs in the basement where I have my waxing/tuning bench).

After 30 minutes of curing, I angled them towards the sun because I noticed the tips and tails weren’t drying as quickly, and figured more direct sunlight might help at my latitude (48 degrees N).

This is after corking/brushing/wiping with a damp cloth to remove the residue.

Same thing after part B.

It’s weird looking at them, they look dull without wax. If there was a way to f@#k this up, I’m sure I did, though I followed the directions. I’m not an expert at ski maintainence, though I do wax my skis periodically and have a Tools for Boards kit I got from Slidewright.

Now I need to take them in to get bindings mounted, and I’m sure the shop is going to want to wax and hot box them as well. I guess I could take them to a shop further away that sells DPS and might have a clue about Phantom. I still haven’t decided whether I want them waxed or try them out on the snow first. I suppose it couldn’t hurt to start out with fresh wax, then see if I notice a difference after a half-dozen days skiing.

 

[Sibhusky]

Well, just tell them not to.

 

[Monique]

Now I need to take them in to get bindings mounted, and I’m sure the shop is going to want to wax and hot box them as well. I guess I could take them to a shop further away that sells DPS and might have a clue about Phantom. I still haven’t decided whether I want them waxed or try them out on the snow first. I suppose it couldn’t hurt to start out with fresh wax, then see if I notice a difference after a half-dozen days skiing.

I've never had a shop insist that skis must be waxed when bindings are mounted - and never had a shop even suggest hot boxing. Is this something your shop suggests regularly?

 

[David Chaus]

I've never had a shop insist that skis must be waxed when bindings are mounted - and never had a shop even suggest hot boxing. Is this something your shop suggests regularly?

Not necessarily, I’m just anticipating what they’ll suggest, since the skis clearly don’t have any wax. It is kind of unusual to have a brand new pair of skis without any wax, and not everyone knows about Phantom, especially if they don’t carry DPS.

 

[Monique]

Not necessarily, I’m just anticipating what they’ll suggest, since the skis clearly don’t have any wax. It is kind of unusual to have a brand new pair of skis without any wax, and not everyone knows about Phantom, especially if they don’t carry DPS.

Teaching moment