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nay

dirt heel pusher
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^^^^thanks, that’s really helpful. I definitely was not just wiping off A with a paper towel. It would have stuck, ripped, and then left fibers glued all over the base. I went by the PDF instructions that had the cork and wipe for both parts.

It’s an answer for having a longer break in. Guess I’ll have to keep skiing them. Like tomorrow ogsmile.
 

Jacques

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The Phantom kit comes with a steel brush and I brushed them pretty good, but sounds worth hitting it again. DPS does emphasize this in the instructions.

@ScottB thanks for the info on your application and experience. Sounds like my second day may have been similar to yours. The white lettering is just base material from what I can tell, but I don’t know? I’d think of that was the issue it would present with wax, too.

Back to brushing and some more ski days. Will report back.

The white lettering is the same without carbon graphite etc. Die cut pieces. I don't like excessive die cut pieces on a base, but it's all good.
The white will be better for wet snow, while the black will be better in drier snows.
 
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Jacques

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I took two DPS Skis to Mt Rose, one with Phantom. The other prepped with yellow wax.
I found them to ski similarly when the snow got sticky.
The yellow wax may(emphasis on may) have been slightly quicker on the first run or so, but when the snow gets sticky, its sticky.

Truth. ^ I have become a believer in using a harder than yellow waxes for spring dirty snows. Harder, but with high fluoro.
 

Chubb

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^^^^thanks, that’s really helpful. I definitely was not just wiping off A with a paper towel. It would have stuck, ripped, and then left fibers glued all over the base. I went by the PDF instructions that had the cork and wipe for both parts.

It’s an answer for having a longer break in. Guess I’ll have to keep skiing them. Like tomorrow ogsmile.


The video says just wipe off the cured part A with a paper towel, while the PDF says "You may have excess Phantom on the surface after curing. Wipe off excess and aggressively cork the underlying residue." When I applied phantom to my fat powder skis the cured part A residue was so thick and gummy that wiping was not an option and corking just smeared the surface without removing much. Then I tried a roto-brush instead of corking, which did appear to smooth and thin the residue layer.

I have my doubts about how deep Phantom can be absorbed into the sintered base structure, even starting with a freshly stone ground base. Now the part B has to penetrate the residue layer of cured part A before being absorbed deeply into the base pores, which supposedly are already filled with cured part A? By what magical process? It sounds so unlikely.

With those thoughts in mind I decided to ignore DPS's instructions and remove the part A residue from the base structure by scraping and brushing before applying part B. On the first ski the scraper removed a surprising amount of white residue, even after it had been briefly roto-brushed. It took a couple cycles of scraping and brushing to remove all the residue. On the second ski most of the gummy part A residue came off with the roto-brush, clogging the coarse nylon bristles, leaving little to scrape.

The cured part B residue was not as thick and gummy as part A, so it was easy to buff with the roto-brush and then clear the structure with a finer hand brush. So far I've only used these treated skis once for a couple hours in 7" of fresh Spring snow and some exposed softened crust. The glide was a mix of good and grabby. I hope to try these skis again soon in corn and slush conditions. It's too early to tell how effective and durable Phantom will be. Maybe I ruined it by not following the application instructions.
 

Jacques

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DPS Phantom 2.0 Whop de doop! It's out now.

From DPS "Your skis or snowboard will retain a glossy black appearance after a Phantom application. After thirty days or so of use, any base material will begin to look “dry” as snow abrasion starts take its toll. At this point, a stone grind will freshen the appearance to new."

This is true if you don't wax your skis and ski for thirty days!

Be sure to use gloves to apply your Phantom! Don't eat any of it either!

upload_2018-9-14_16-33-26.jpeg
 
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Sibhusky

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So they want you to get a base grind every 30 days?? That would quadruple how often I get one. Maybe even sextuple. I only get base grinds for structure and keep my structure fresh using the SkiVisions tool regularly. I can't even remember the last time I needed a full grind..
 

dbostedo

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I don't think they want you to do anything in particular. I think they're just trying to combat pr market to people who want their bases to look dark like they would if they were waxing.
 
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Philpug

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DPS Phantom 2.0 Whop de doop! It's out now.

From DPS "Your skis or snowboard will retain a glossy black appearance after a Phantom application. After thirty days or so of use, any base material will begin to look “dry” as snow abrasion starts take its toll. At this point, a stone grind will freshen the appearance to new."

This is true if you don't wax your skis and ski for thirty days!

Be sure to use gloves to apply your Phantom! Don't eat any of it either!
View attachment 53414
Have you read the disclaimer on every products? Here are some funny ones.

I know you are a fan of Dominator waxes..here is their 7 page disclaimer. At least Phantom doesn't require a respirator. ;)

So they want you to get a base grind every 30 days?? That would quadruple how often I get one. Maybe even sextuple. I only get base grinds for structure and keep my structure fresh using the SkiVisions tool regularly. I can't even remember the last time I needed a full grind..
No, it said it would freshen the appearance, not that it needed to be done to make the product perform as expected.

Edited to add link.
 
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cantunamunch

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I don't think they want you to do anything in particular. I think they're just trying to combat pr market to people who want their bases to look dark like they would if they were waxing.

That not dark thing is exactly what got me thinking in the direction I am thinking.

I still think this thing has a huge potential for treating raw hardwood surfaces, in a way that doesn't darken the hardwood like pine tar does. Besides, I'm kinda tired of buying gas for the torch.

And, If it works on Asnes, Bonna, Splitkein bases, it should also work on RAMP, Shaggy's, MR sidewalls.
 
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PisteOff

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So they want you to get a base grind every 30 days?? That would quadruple how often I get one. Maybe even sextuple. I only get base grinds for structure and keep my structure fresh using the SkiVisions tool regularly. I can't even remember the last time I needed a full grind..

Which makes me think a quick rub on/spray on wax with a quick cork or brush might put the color right back in them.

@Philpug have you had any of your Phantom fleet white out yet? If so, have you tried a quick crayon and cork job on them or any other application? Or do you just keep riding. I don't see you running to get your bases ground if the structure is still intact regardless of what color they turn.....

I plan on putting phantom on our JJ's and our Wailers. That will leave the powder skis pretty maintenance free which I like. We may even do the all mountain boards. The carving skis, racing skis, etc. will remain as they are and see regular hot wax and tune as needed. Personally, I won't be running to get my bases ground until the structure has deteriorated. A little white out won't have me concerned.
 
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Philpug

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Which makes me think a quick rub on/spray on wax with a quick cork or brush might put the color right back in them.

@Philpug have you had any of your Phantom fleet white out yet? If so, have you tried a quick crayon and cork job on them or any other application? Or do you just keep riding. I don't see you running to get your bases ground if the structure is still intact regardless of what color they turn.....

I plan on putting phantom on our JJ's and our Wailers. That will leave the powder skis pretty maintenance free which I like. We may even do the all mountain boards. The carving skis, racing skis, etc. will remain as they are and see regular hot wax and tune as needed. Personally, I won't be running to get my bases ground until the structure has deteriorated. A little white out won't have me concerned.

We haven't had any out this season yet ;) but we put a good amount of miles on them last year and after 40 days or so on them we did grind them, not that they needed it but to see if there was a change in perforance. Honestly, we didn't feel any difference in the way the ski performed but the bases did look better. My 100th and last day of the season was a day of patch skiing with @Stev on some very old, suncupped and sticky snow and the Phantom performed as well as any yellow or wet snow wax could be expected to.
 

silverback

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I bought some at the original crowd funding but just got around to using applying it. After reading all the reports I've been procrastinating what seemed like a hassle.

I picked up a new pair of mx98's this summer and had them ground and set up at. 7/3. I asked the shop to skip the wax. The process was a lot easier than expected, so easy I wonder if I screwed something up. No sticky residue. Just wiped them off and the looked great. I did the cork and roto brush at the end. They look like freshly waxed skis.
 

ScottB

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That is typical. I don't why some people had issues, maybe some bad mixes in the packets??? I did 4 pairs of skis and same results as you. Skied great right out of the gate. I did leave mine out a full day in the sun for each part, just to make sure they got plenty of UV cure exposure.
 

David Chaus

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I’ve got the Phantom 2.0 on order. I just hope there is at least one good sunny day in the next few weeks (I’m in the PNW after all); that type of weather is hard to come by after mid-October. They will go on my new Renoun Z90’s, which haven’t even been mounted with bindings yet.
 

silverback

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That is typical. I don't why some people had issues, maybe some bad mixes in the packets??? I did 4 pairs of skis and same results as you. Skied great right out of the gate. I did leave mine out a full day in the sun for each part, just to make sure they got plenty of UV cure exposure.

It could be the sun. It is still pretty strong here (Utah & over 7000ft elevation) and the skis were pretty hot to the touch. The Phantom seemed to melt in like wax in a hot box. Mostly I was just wiping off bugs and leaves that blew onto them. I took two days, the first day they were outside from 11am to about 3pm and the second from 10am to 2pm.
 

Andy Mink

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I did my wife's skis with V.1 and it worked fine. Yes, it takes a little time and a bit of elbow grease but the skis work great. I didn't have the sticky problem. After curing the excess flaked off with the scraper. Then corked and buffed.
 

Jacques

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Have you read the disclaimer on every products? Here are some funny ones.

I know you are a fan of Dominator waxes..here is their 7 page disclaimer. At least Phantom doesn't require a respirator. ;)


No, it said it would freshen the appearance, not that it needed to be done to make the product perform as expected.

Edited to add link.

Although I do like to play the devil's advocate, it seems that folks that have tested the stuff seem to be happy with it.
I'll wait longer for more real feedback from "regular" skiers.
If the stuff works for the long run, for the price, time, and money seems almost too good to be true.
As I said before, I spend tons of money and time waxing skis.
 

Andy Mink

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Although I do like to play the devil's advocate, it seems that folks that have tested the stuff seem to be happy with it.
I'll wait longer for more real feedback from "regular" skiers.
If the stuff works for the long run, for the price, time, and money seems almost too good to be true.
As I said before, I spend tons of money and time waxing skis.
I'd be interested to see what someone who really knows their waxes (i.e. you) thinks about Phantom as both a stand alone or, even more so, how it responds to having a wax applied over it and how it feels after that wax starts to degrade during the day. Knowing that some waxes can be pretty much gone after a few runs does Phantom give you the rest of the day on skis that are better than if the wax just wore down to the base with no treatment.
 

Doug Briggs

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We haven't had any out this season yet ;) but we put a good amount of miles on them last year and after 40 days or so on them we did grind them, not that they needed it but to see if there was a change in perforance. Honestly, we didn't feel any difference in the way the ski performed but the bases did look better. My 100th and last day of the season was a day of patch skiing with @Stev on some very old, suncupped and sticky snow and the Phantom performed as well as any yellow or wet snow wax could be expected to.

@Philpug , so you weren't seeing base burn before you ground them?

From DPS "Your skis or snowboard will retain a glossy black appearance after a Phantom application. After thirty days or so of use, any base material will begin to look “dry” as snow abrasion starts take its toll. At this point, a stone grind will freshen the appearance to new."

DPS is seeming to suggest you might (are likely to) see base burn if I'm reading their quote correctly. I can't believe that base burn is good for any ski, DPS Phantom treated or otherwise. If grinding to remove base burn or waxing treated Phantom bases to prevent base burn is de rigueur, then I think I'm missing the advantage of Phantom.
 

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