Andy Mink
Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
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Or booze.
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Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment
- Thread starter Philpug
- Start date
Another Phantom skiing test to report on. I put the Phantom on 3 different skis when I took the plunge. Mine, my wife's, and my son's. I figured it it didn't work we would all be stuck together, or if it worked, the opposite.
I skied my wife's brand new K2 Pinnacle 95 skis last night in pretty firm snow and 25-30F temps. I had a decent traverse to start off the night and they were initially a little sticky. By the end of the 200 yard skate, the stickyness went away and they started to glide well. Basically, they felt like a freshly waxed ski, and it is really noticeable when coming into a fairly long run out with some speed. You keep moving pretty well.
A couple of thoughts on the skis, they were 177 cm long, which is way to short for me in this ski. They are also last year's model, which has been called a "clown shoe" which is exactly what I thought after a couple of runs. They were probably the easiest turning ski I have ever been on. Did a good job absorbing the hard lumpy slopes. These are pretty soft forgiving skis, but definitely not noodles. Seemed very stable too, although I didn't get them up to any significant speed. The big negative I noticed is they didn't carve for sh**t. When I said they were easy turning, I mean easy to pivot and toss around. When I got home I checked the edges and the factory tune felt pretty poor in terms of angles and sharpness. Whoever out there thinks that "factory tune" numbers are appropriate, sorry to burst your bubble. They can be all over the map, and for these skis, not what you want. I will check the base bevel to make sure its not greater than 1.0 and then sharpen the side edges to a 3 deg angle and that should really improve the ski for a carved turn. If I only want to ski soft snow, the factory tune is OK, but in New England we mostly ski hard snow and need our edges sharp and "race tuned" for grip.
I skied my wife's brand new K2 Pinnacle 95 skis last night in pretty firm snow and 25-30F temps. I had a decent traverse to start off the night and they were initially a little sticky. By the end of the 200 yard skate, the stickyness went away and they started to glide well. Basically, they felt like a freshly waxed ski, and it is really noticeable when coming into a fairly long run out with some speed. You keep moving pretty well.
A couple of thoughts on the skis, they were 177 cm long, which is way to short for me in this ski. They are also last year's model, which has been called a "clown shoe" which is exactly what I thought after a couple of runs. They were probably the easiest turning ski I have ever been on. Did a good job absorbing the hard lumpy slopes. These are pretty soft forgiving skis, but definitely not noodles. Seemed very stable too, although I didn't get them up to any significant speed. The big negative I noticed is they didn't carve for sh**t. When I said they were easy turning, I mean easy to pivot and toss around. When I got home I checked the edges and the factory tune felt pretty poor in terms of angles and sharpness. Whoever out there thinks that "factory tune" numbers are appropriate, sorry to burst your bubble. They can be all over the map, and for these skis, not what you want. I will check the base bevel to make sure its not greater than 1.0 and then sharpen the side edges to a 3 deg angle and that should really improve the ski for a carved turn. If I only want to ski soft snow, the factory tune is OK, but in New England we mostly ski hard snow and need our edges sharp and "race tuned" for grip.
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Would like to hear if that changes your assessment.
I am skiing tomorrow night, I will sharpen them tonight and give them another try and report back. I can tell the grip should have been much better and it is the tune. Even at slow speeds and high edge angles, the grip was very little. I like race skis, so these are not my cup of tea, but they seem like good skis that are forgiving, easy to ski, and can handle a wide variety of snow conditions. I doubt they will be great on boilerplate even with a race tune, but with reasonable grip they will be a great ski for my wife, who is an intermediate skier and struggles with narrower skis in varied conditions. I should probably start a new thread on just the skis.
It was a two fur
I tuned my wife's K2's and skied them last night. Edge grip was restored and skis did well. Here is a link to my new thread if anyone wants the details. The Phantom felt good again as well.
https://forum.pugski.com/threads/k2-2016-pinnacle-95-review-and-factory-tune.8602/
https://forum.pugski.com/threads/k2-2016-pinnacle-95-review-and-factory-tune.8602/
OK, I too got two Phantoms and both were “compromised” in the packaging process. Both skis were sticky and gooey when I finished. I called DPS and they were amazing. We had no time to deal with issues as we were headed to Vail in a couple of days. DPS went above and beyond the call of customer service. The local rep gave us skis to use for a couple of days while they got our skis ground and conventionally waxed. BTW, the DPS skis were great and my wife loved the 2018/2019 Cassier a87 in the 178cm. We are leaving today and our skis are in boxes to go to DPS HQ to have the Phantom reapplied. They once again were super in understanding of my only being home 1 day in the next three weeks so I would not really be able to do it myself, so we are picking them up when we land in SLC next month.
Note: The local DPS Rep is also the local Swix Rep, SUPER nice guy. We had a conversation about the waxing options. So here is a guy that “could sell me either product” and he flat out told me that IF you are not racing, the Phantom is absolutely the better option. This is a guy that essentially has no dog in the fight as he is making money on Swix wax or Phantom wax. Certainly Phantom is a less expensive long term option. Just thought some might find that interesting that he thinks the Phantom is a superior product to those not racing.
Note: The local DPS Rep is also the local Swix Rep, SUPER nice guy. We had a conversation about the waxing options. So here is a guy that “could sell me either product” and he flat out told me that IF you are not racing, the Phantom is absolutely the better option. This is a guy that essentially has no dog in the fight as he is making money on Swix wax or Phantom wax. Certainly Phantom is a less expensive long term option. Just thought some might find that interesting that he thinks the Phantom is a superior product to those not racing.
Ahah! Here we see the real business model - it's a bait and switch to get people onto their ungodly expensive skis ;-)
FYI. Phantom will not work on your skis unless you have a Pugski sticker on the top sheet. 
FYI. Phantom will not work on your skis unless you have a Pugski sticker on the top sheet.
That is an incorrect, I have PugSki Stickers
So, the Phantom is one time permanent...until the bottom is ground at a routine tuning?
Andy Mink
Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Moderator
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
It permeates the base. Grinding isn't supposed to effect it.
One of the things we are known for is fair and honest assessment of the things we review.
When it comes to DPS Phantom, we are merely skiing on skis with Phantom in a variety of conditions, including taking the time to grind a pair after some prolonged use and report back on how the stuff is working.
As of now, we are not noticing a difference between Phantom permanent and other waxes we're using in a variety of conditions.
We will continue to report on it as time goes on.
* @Andy Mink is another person who has been skiing it, and he has no connection to DPS in any manner.
I love it that you liked the Cassiars.
I've skied on your skis and the Cassiars and (personally) enjoyed the Cassiars better than Bomber.
Thanks Tricia! Seems so far some positive feedback from a few users.
It seems ideal for traveling when you don't want to lug all that stuff.
It was super cold yesterday and I was wishing the last time I had skied those skis it hadn't been 25-30 degrees warmer. Fortunately, they had a CH4 layer applied early in the season, so I wasn't in as bad shape as most, but they're home now awaiting another hit of CH4.
I can't remember, has anyone skied this Phantom stuff in -4F with -20 (not that the skis care) wind chill?
It was super cold yesterday and I was wishing the last time I had skied those skis it hadn't been 25-30 degrees warmer. Fortunately, they had a CH4 layer applied early in the season, so I wasn't in as bad shape as most, but they're home now awaiting another hit of CH4.
I can't remember, has anyone skied this Phantom stuff in -4F with -20 (not that the skis care) wind chill?
I am not aware of a report in that cold of temp's yet. I skied it in 15F temps and it was good. I asked and they didn't have any data either.
The sun in Seattle is pretty weak this time of year so that may have been a factor. The other thing I am think may be that the ski in time needs to be greater in warmer conditions with softer/wetter snow. I used a roto brush and skied in much colder weather the second time around and I think that made a huge difference as the skis really took off after a couple runs.
With the other product form Europe that does not require sun to cure it the recommend a light pass through a grinder after the cure to really smooth out the bases though this is optional. I buffed pretty hard with a roto brush as it was drying (another option) so got my bases pretty smooth. Even still I can feel little specks where the resin hardened and will have to be buffed out by the snow. Have to assume that the same issue is what requires the ski in time from DPS.
Anyhow leave tomorrow for Sun Peaks where the weather is going down pretty close to 0 F. Was actually -7 F the other day, so will get a chance to do cold performance eval of both products side by side. Waxed my other skis with some cold weather wax that I have not touched in like 4 years, forgot what a pain it is to use that stuff so hoping that both the Phantom and Giga Glide perform well.
