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Individual Review Review: 2017 Thermic Impulse Control Systems

Philpug

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Thermic, with a history of heating devices going back over 20 years, has expanded its offerings past boot heaters to gloves, socks, heating pads, and liners. The products reviewed here will be the ThermicSole/IC1200 SmartPack Combo, UniHeat PowerSocks, and IC1300 Ladies PowerGlove. These items were chosen because when testing gear and doing video and photography, we end up standing around in the snow -- a lot -- and warm feet and extremities make for a warm day.

ThermicSole/IC1200 SmartPack Combo

Thermic II.jpg
Thermic IC1200.jpg

I have used heaters in my boots for the last 5 years because, as I said, I do a lot of standing around in snow, and my feet tend to get cold. Installing the heating pads and compact IC1200 elements was straightforward. While many shops will offer to install the system for you, anyone who is confident using an x-acto knife and screwdriver will be able to handle the task. I did go with the optional Universal PowerPack Adaptors along with the “Jed Peters” upside-down mount method for the heating element, which protects the heating cable from being damaged if hit by the chairlift.

The IC1200 pack is 30 to 40% smaller and more compact than the Hotronic 4+, but the battery life is just as long. Anytime a product is smaller without any loss of efficiency, it is ok by me. “IC” in the IC1200 stands for "Impulse Control," which pulses the heat into the element to help stimulate blood flow to keep the toes warm. Power control works like most others; the IC1200 has three settings: the middle was warm enough for all day, and the highest was actually too warm other than just a few minutes at a time.

UniHeat/IC1200 PowerSock Combo

Thermic Socks.jpg

These socks are a great option for folks who need warmth in a recreational-fit boot. Where the ThermicSoles work well in a high-performance or plug fit, these work well in a boot where there is a little more volume. While my main boot is a 97mm last, I tested these in a 100mm shell, and they took up just to the right amount of volume. There is a loss of connection to the boot but at the gain of warmth; the difference between these and the ThermicSoles is a matter of priority. The Impulse Control combined with UniHeat PowerSocks' ability to warm the whole sole of the foot cannot be overlooked, especially if you have circulation issues. Power controls are easy to operate and user friendly. The socks themselves are machine washable.

IC1300 Ladies PowerGlove

Thermic Powergloves.jpg

Thermic’s well-designed and easy-to-operate IC1300 gloves are a great alternative to cold fingers and hands. Like the IC1200 boot heaters, the gloves do incorporate Thermic’s IC technology, which allows the heat to vary and increases circulation in the fingers. More blood circulation equals warmer hands, and our testers' hands stayed warm all day. A men’s glove and a unisex mitten are also available.

"I was a bit wary to try out heated gloves. Seriously, I am the skier that wears mittens until the warmest of beach days at A-Basin; during the 'cold' part of winter, I add at least one pair of hand warmers and glove liners. Surprise! These worked! Granted, it was April/May in Colorado, but remember, I would normally still be wearing mittens."-- @SkiNurse.
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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Paging @bbinder to the white courtesy phone.
 

bbinder

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So. Do you like the Thermics more than the Hotronics?
 

bbinder

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And what are the relative size of the batteries?
 

chemist

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The IC1200 pack is 30 to 40% smaller and more compact than the Hotronic 4+, but the battery life is just as long.

Do you have specs on the relative mAh (milliampere-hour) capacities of the Thermic and Hotronics batteries? I'm wondering if the Thermic lasts as long as the Hotronic in spite of a smaller battery b/c Thermic's been able to achieve a higher energy density, or for some other reason (their "Impulse Control", for instance) (or maybe a combination of the two).
 

chemist

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Thanks! So the Hotronic is 2000 mAh, while the Thermic's capacity is indicated in the model no: the IC950, IC1200, and IC1600 are 950, 1200, and 1600 mAh, respectively.
Thus, roughly speaking, it seems the Thermic lasts as long/works as well with a smaller battery not because of higher battery energy density, but for two other possible reasons:

A) It pulses the heat. I'm inferring their claim is they've figured out that, physiologically, cycling from warm to less warm keeps the feet nearly as warm as constant warmth.

B) It offers an insole that is customized to deliver the thermal energy to the foot. The Hotronics just offers a disk that goes under the toes. By contrast (correct me if I'm wrong), the Thermic doesn't work with custom insoles, instead substituting its own insole.

So there are two questions:

1) Is the Thermic (1200 mAh) really able to achieve equivalent foot-warmth to the Hotronic (2000 mAh) under limiting conditions (say, a day cold enough that the Hotronic is just barely able to keep up)? I.e., the review says the IC1200 lasts as long; but does it keep the feet as warm on really cold days, in spite of delivering less thermal energy?

2) If the answer to (1) is yes, then how much of this is due to (A) vs. (B)?
 
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DanoT

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My Hestra gloves have 2 batteries per glove totaling 3.7v and 2600mAh:
Hestra battery and glove.jpg
Hestra glove battery.jpg



My Sidas batteries for my heated footbeds:
 

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Philpug

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Thanks! So the Hotronic is 2000 mAh, while the Thermic's capacity is indicated in the model no: the IC950, IC1200, and IC1600 are 950, 1200, and 1600 mAh, respectively.
Thus, roughly speaking, it seems the Thermic lasts as long/works as well with a smaller battery not because of higher battery energy density, but for two other possible reasons:

A) It pulses the heat. I'm inferring their claim is they've figured out that, physiologically, cycling from warm to less warm keeps the feet nearly as warm as constant warmth.

B) It offers an insole that is customized to deliver the thermal energy to the foot. The Hotronics just offers a disk that goes under the toes. By contrast (correct me if I'm wrong), the Thermic doesn't work with custom insoles, instead substituting its own insole.

So there are two questions:

1) Is the Thermic (1200 mAh) really able to achieve equivalent foot-warmth to the Hotronic (2000 mAh) under limiting conditions (say, a day cold enough that the Hotronic is just barely able to keep up)? I.e., the review says the IC1200 lasts as long; but does it keep the feet as warm on really cold days, in spite of delivering less thermal energy?

2) If the answer to (1) is yes, then how much of this is due to (A) vs. (B)?
A lot has to do with expections especially in a low volume race boot with a thin liner. Boot Heaters really are not heaters, but Boot Minimizing The Cold. Skiing is a cold sport, in the winter in devices that are not warm.

To answer your questions:

A) I did find the pulsing to help and I did feel when the temp changed.

B) The Thermic I reviewed is also a disc element. Location, placement and installation was similar to the Hotronics.
 

chemist

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I've always had cold feet. I remember one demo day in the 90's when I was so excited to try skis I didn't come in for lunch (and my usual warm-up). The pain after my toes defrosted at the end of the day was .... substantial (no frostbite, fortunately). I subsequently got heaters and found them essential; sometimes also needed boot gloves. Then, around 2000, I got my first pair of RD boots with thin race liners. Because they fit me so well, I had great circulation and no longer needed the heaters or the boot gloves! Same with my current boots which, while not plugs (Scorpion SR130's), also fit me very well and use a thin race liner (though they don't fit me quite as perfectly, and thus are slightly colder).
 

KingGrump

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Beside the mAh. I think the voltage should be taken into account.
The Hotronic S3 is 3.6v, S4 is 4.8v. Both Hotronic batteries are rated for 2.000mAh.
The Thermic batteries are all 7.4v but varies on mAh.

One of the other difference between the two manufacturer is the type of battery used. Hotronics uses NiMH, while Thermic utilizes Li-ion. Li-ion are generally lighter and more compact than equivalent NiMH.
 

chemist

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One of the other difference between the two manufacturer is the type of battery used. Hotronics uses NiMH, while Thermic utilizes Li-ion. Li-ion are generally lighter and more compact than equivalent NiMH.
Ah, I didn't know that Hotronics still uses NiMH — I was assuming they'd switched over to Li-ion (it's surprising to me they haven't). And yes, in that case the Thermic batteries should have a higher energy density.
Beside the mAh. I think the voltage should be taken into account.
The Hotronic S3 is 3.6v, S4 is 4.8v. Both Hotronic batteries are rated for 2.000mAh.
The Thermic batteries are all 7.4v but varies on mAh.
What would be the significance of the difference in output voltage? I don't know much about batteries, but my assumption is that the total amount of thermal energy a battery could deliver would depend only on the total capacity and the percent of it that can be discharged during a ski day. I suppose the other consideration would be the maximum rate of energy discharge (if you needed a lot of heating for a short period of time), but that would be voltage x max. current.

**************
Here's a comparison chart I found; don't know if the times they list can be trusted.
http://www.alpineaccessories.com/Battery-boot-heater-comparison.html
 
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KingGrump

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My college physic days happened more than 40 years ago. So I am probably wrong going forward with the explanation. :D

Work is measure in watts. Watt = voltage x amperage. To me, heat is work.
With the same amperage the higher voltage battery set can do more work.

Noticed the Hotronic S3 is 3.6v while the S4 is 4.8v. Both are rated at 2,000 mAh. The S4 probably have 4x1.2v cell and the S3 has 3x1.2v cells. For the same work (watt) the S4 can draw lower current (amp) at a higher voltage. The cells in both the S3 &S4 are probably the same units. Probably similar to the rechargeable AA cell we all have rolling around.

Thermic on the other hand keeps the same voltage across the board probably due the their pulse system. The pulse system must have a bit more electronics and probably a bit more finicky so a constant voltage would be beneficial. to keep the voltage constant across all the models, they kept the number of cells constant and vary the size of the cells. Somewhat similar to the AAA, AA, C, D batteries we are familiar with.
 

chemist

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OK, I see where you were going. So:

power (rate of energy discharge) = voltage x current (amperage)

energy = heat + work = power x time

[I.e., using SI units, power is measured in watts, and work and heat are forms of energy, i.e., of power x time, so work is actually watts x seconds = joules, which can be converted to BTU or any other unit of energy.]

Heat and work are both flows of energy from a system to the surroundings (what we define as the system is arbitrary, and here it makes sense to initially define it as the battery). Now here it gets a bit tricky with the thermodynamics and the strict definitions of heat and work flow and system vs. surroundings (heat and work are only defined when there is a flow of energy across a system boundary), but I'm going to ignore the rigor for the purposes of simplicity.

So in this case, we can say that the battery does work on the surroundings by making electrons move through a resistive element, and that this work is entirely converted to heat:

energy = electrochemical work done by battery = (via 'resistive conversion') heat flow into foot & boot = power x time

power = rate at which work flows out of the system = rate of heat flow into foot & boot

[I'm ignoring the possibility that something in the heating element is converted to a higher potential energy state by the flow of electrons, and that it remains at this higher state, since that would be work that was not converted to heat.]

So let's first consider work: If we assume both batteries can discharge all of their capacity during a ski day (set on high), the 2000 mAh battery can do 2/3 more work (creating 2/3 more heat flow into the surroundings, i.e., the foot & boot) than the 1200 mAh battery. This would be independent of voltage (unless voltage has some effect on %discharge).

Now let's consider maximum power (= max rate of work flow = max rate at which heat can flow into the foot & boot). That's max. (voltage x current). Here the voltage would of course be relevant, but not by itself; what counts is the maximum of (voltage x current). This is probably dictated by the battery technology along with whatever regulation circuitry is used.

Hope there are no typos, since in a few minutes I won't be able to edit this!
 
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cantunamunch

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While you're having fun with total power computations, some real world factors you may wish to consider:

- NiMH has a pretty high self-discharge rate and a very bad coulombic efficiency.

- High output voltage is good but it means several cells were put in series - the current you're getting out is only as good as that from the worst cell in the chain.

- We should not assume that the same method was used to test batteries of different chemistry. For example, Energizer rates their NiMH on a 5hour rule:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf - look at Fig. 8 ,

Notice that Energizer 'rated' capacity is only achievable at 0.2C so 2000mAh will only provide 100% of the rated energy if it's discharged at 400mA or lower currents.

If the Li -ion battery is tested at .5C or 1C then comparing the two capacity measurements is like comparing apples and cabbages. Trivia: lead acid batteries are tested at .05C (20hour rate)
 

chemist

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Thanks for the extra info. Regarding the output voltage, even though the Thermic's is higher, it may use fewer batteries in series than the Hotronics, because of Li-ion's higher cell voltage. I've read that a typical Li-ion cell voltage is 3.7 V (in contrast with 1.2 V for NiMH), in which case the Thermic would only need 2 cells in series to achieve its 7.4 V output.
 

bbinder

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So, I decided to buy the Thermic ic1200. The size of the battery was a deciding factor for me; the amount of time that one gets with a single recharge is a plus as well. I installed the heater elements using the Shaffner technique with the Philpug modification of leaving the elements themselves uncovered. (I opted to leave the previously installed chambrelle covering on my footbeds behind the elements, mainly because I did not feel like trying to clean off the residual sticky glue from the footbeds themselves.)

The heaters performed great. The temperature was in the teens and my feet never got really cold. On level "2", my toes started to get chilly, but turning the heaters up to level "3" got me comfortable quickly. I still had some charge left at the end of the day.

My problem has always been the batteries popping off the power straps and sitting loosely in the cuff of my pants. I was hoping that the smaller battery size would solve this problem, but it did not (for me). I never liked the idea of permanently mounting to the back of the boot, because I seem to get whacked in this area an awful lot when I am getting on the chair. I know -- user error, but I don't think this will ever change... So, I may have to play with one of the accessories that Thermic sells to minimize the chance of losing a battery. Any suggestions in this area are welcome.

Apparently, I also have a leak in my shell that allows snow to get in event when buckled securely. Even with my liner being fairly wet at the end of the day, my feet stayed comfortable. However, I do plan on tackling this leakage issue. I will probably start with duct tape and go from there. Again, suggestions welcome.

Overall, I am happy with the purchase so far. We will see how things go over the course of the season.
 

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