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"Restaurant Wine" - pejorative

Tony S

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Discuss.
 
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Tony S

Tony S

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Not talking about cheap swill here. More like mid-priced swill. This is tonight.

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SShore

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Most restaurants, even some really nice ones, have no clue. Most places I see are mostly if no entirely made up of mainstream California wines with an Argentine Malbec thrown in for good measure. You could not find more food unfriendly wine if you tried. I often wonder if whoever puts this crap on the wine list ever actually ever sits down and drinks their wine with their food.

As an example, I went to a VERY highly rated seafood restaurant in Atlanta. Their list was 70% red and the whites were oaky, Malone, buttery chards from Cali. In other words not a single white suitable for seafood (what food are those wines suitable for?). Not a single Muscadet for their oysters, not a single Chablis or Sancerre, no light,bright acetic reds, in other word, no seafood wine. What were they thinking?
 

scott43

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raytseng

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They aren't thinking about wine exactly.

What happens is the restaurant just invites the wine/spirits distributor in, and turns over that job to the distributor. The distributor brings perhaps a half dozen options, and perhaps about a case of "samples" for the owner/staff. And then they decide by the specs- mostly meaning the price point and how much they can mark it for sale.
Since the sales rep doesn't work for the restaurant, their motive is just is to move wine, not specifically what's best for the food.
So yea, the restaurantour perhaps doesn't know wine; the distributor isn't sending a high-priced Sales Rep who pores over the menu; nor is the restaurantour going to feed a noncredentialed Sales Rep a tasting menu in that 3pm-4pm meeting they set aside to order wine as if they were a paid sommelier.

If they want to go that route, the restaurantour needs to hire a sommelier to help them as a consultant; the same as if they wanted to make a push for a fancy website, a social media presence, or optimizing their yelp reviews and the rest of that. Most aren't going to spend thousands of dollars to get wine selection optimized (plus the inventory costs) versus using that same money to get to the top of yelp searches, or install DirectTV and flatscreens to watch sports or something else.

Non-fancy wine people won't know the difference or don't care and just need any kind of booze to take the edge off.
Fancy wine people will be bringing in their own wine and pay corkage.
 
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Tony S

Tony S

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These are interesting posts. Good topics. Not exactly what I had in mind, but good topics.

I wasn't thinking so much about wine in restaurants, as about "restaurant wine." In other words, lowest common denominator wine at any given price point, even high ones. Wines that are, as an acquaintance used to like to say, "unexceptionable." No, that is not a typo. It means, something that no one will take exception to.
 

raytseng

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i think though box wine is probably a better perjorative though to imply cheapness of the alcohol but at least you get what is advertised and appropriate value for what you paid

restaurant wine has an extra connotation of profit and dressing up involved.
e.g. perhaps bottle or name looks nice but the contents still are just commodity volume booze or overstock.
 

SShore

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i think though box wine is probably a better perjorative though to imply cheapness of the alcohol but at least you get what is advertised and appropriate value for what you paid

restaurant wine has an extra connotation of profit and dressing up involved.
e.g. perhaps bottle or name looks nice but the contents still are just commodity volume booze or overstock.

There are actually some very good Box wines out there, mostly from Spain and France that offer restaurants excellent options for house wines at reasonable prices for the customer and good margin for the restaurant. The restaurant where our daughter is a chef has a Pinot Noir Gamay blend box wine from Burgundy that is wonderful. Most of these are much better options than the $50-60 bottle of Napa Cab for food.

@raytseng, you are exactly right how most wine lists are developed. I just don’t get it, however. If you are a restaurateur and care, it’s not that hard or expensive to develop a great and reasonably priced wine list.
 
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cosmoliu

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Timely mention of box wines- my granddaughter is graduating high school next month and her mom needs a couple of good box party wine recommendations. Maybe a red and a white? Widely available?
 

cantunamunch

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I wasn't thinking so much about wine in restaurants, as about "restaurant wine." In other words, lowest common denominator wine at any given price point, even high ones. Wines that are, as an acquaintance used to like to say, "unexceptionable." No, that is not a typo. It means, something that no one will take exception to.

You mean like Ruffino's Riserva Ducale at a "craft pizza" joint? Kim Crawford SB at an Irish chipper's? Zardetto prosecco like wherever? That sort of thing?
 

SShore

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Timely mention of box wines- my granddaughter is graduating high school next month and her mom needs a couple of good box party wine recommendations. Maybe a red and a white? Widely available?

The red my daughter serves at her restaurant is Herisson, coteaux Bourguignons
 
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Tony S

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Here you go, @SShore! Twins of different mothers.

This is so refreshing, in every way. It's not restaurant wine. For starters, the first thing you get is a bit of burnt match. Is it too much sulfur or just classic Chablis gunflint? I'm honestly not sure, but I do know some bottles would be sent back on account of it.

Shame, because persistence pays off.

Actually, the FIRST thing you get is s a lot of brilliant highlights and a thicker swirl than you might expect from a "Petit" Chablis. Very pretty wine, visually.

Behind the match, there is just so much going on. Lime, some kind of bright green herb (chervil?), and intense metal/mineral mystery. The famous"wet stone." Yup. These things are cliches for a reason.

On the palate, more of the same, but with a very surprising texture and crème fraîche quality that makes this wine anything but lean. Yeah, I know. Lots of people would call it lean. That's sort of my point with this thread. Open your taste buds, doofuses of the world. Give it a chance. Taste what you taste.

The idea that this is only good with food, because of acidity, is insane. Hike up your skirts, will ya', and get with mother nature. This is like a walk on the beach in November. Just layer up and get out there. It's an excellent companion to PugSki. No food required. Yet! Arctic char on the way. So is spring. Finally. Thank God. Next week, breaking 70. Yee Ha! Okay, off to cook.

20180429_184404-01.jpeg
 
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Tony S

Tony S

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Oh. And AFFORDABLE. Same price as that spineless perfumy plonk in my earlier photo, recommended so highly by blah blah.
 

mdf

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A very pretty piece of fish...

I made short ribs last night for us and another couple.
I served it with

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Of course, Lodi Pinot Noir is a bit of a cheat.
 

mdf

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About restaurant wine...

There are some wines that are literally "restaurant wines", actively sold to the restaurant channel but not the retail channel.

The reason may be to avoid recognition of the other reason to swear at restaurant wines, namely the pricing.

Traditionally, wine was priced at twice retail. (You still see this sometimes in Vermont. I guess it goes with the quaint decor.) I'm fine with twice. I was starting to get used to three times retail -- used to it with a lot of resentment, but resigned. Now I'm seeing 3.5 times retail for bottles. And by-the-glass prices approaching the retail price of a whole bottle. As you would say, "sheesh."
 

mdf

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It was good wine, actually. Just didn't taste much like a pinot.
 

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