That's not powder. It's thin, heavy and sun affected. The guys skis don't even sink.
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Resort Powder, Gone in 60 seconds
- Thread starter Ken_R
- Start date
Not powder, but I would not call it thin; you can get a lot of float from fat skis in heavier snow.
PS. English is a live language, I wonder how long it will be before "powder" means any form of snow that is fresh and isn't packed down.
PS. English is a live language, I wonder how long it will be before "powder" means any form of snow that is fresh and isn't packed down.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2015
- Posts
- 4,123
rather have bottomless not powder, than bottomed powder.
I'm thinking that day has already come and gone. I think people say that it's a powder day as long as snow has fallen and they aren't skiing groomers. Now that I think about it, I may tend to say it's powder even when it's heavy, and not to only mean particularly fluffy/light snow. Maybe that's an east coast thing.
Eh, I don't beat people up over it. It's like if they say "motor" instead of engine for the motive power source in cars.
However, if we want to get pedantic, my test, which I believe is common, is: to qualify as powder the snow must be non-snowballable. If it's snowballable then it's not powderl
I think only really snowmakers and avalanche condition evaluators really need to get pedantic on the types snow. Everyone else on the resort can get colloquial, just have fun.
Let's not get started on "Bluebird". (queue photo of "not-bluebird enough").
However, if we want to get pedantic, my test, which I believe is common, is: to qualify as powder the snow must be non-snowballable. If it's snowballable then it's not powderl
I think only really snowmakers and avalanche condition evaluators really need to get pedantic on the types snow. Everyone else on the resort can get colloquial, just have fun.
Let's not get started on "Bluebird". (queue photo of "not-bluebird enough").
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2016
- Posts
- 527
Is this really the best policy? To be clear there are two parts of the policy:
1. Limit access via a gate. Crowds can get so big that dropping a rope can be dangerous. In those situations, reducing skier traffic via a gate and patroler sounds like a good idea. no need to do this for lower traffic situations.
2. Giving people with beacons line cutting privileges. I don't know what the motivation of this rule is. Some might say safety but the odds of a beacon saving your life in an inbound slide is exceedingly rare and the fact the CB alternates non-beacon people essentially shows it's not about safety. To meet this requirement, all a skier really needs is $150 (I'm sure sales have gone way up at the base). What's next, required airbags, avilungs, $100 additional fee, etc? Skiing is expensive enough and we certainly don't need any more gear to lug around.
I sure hope this trend doesn't continue. As far as I can recall, CB, Bridger, Big Sky and Sunshine Village are the only ski areas that have beacon requirements for in bounds areas (I'm sure there are a few I forgot)
Just curious is it the odds of an in bounds slide that is rare or that having a beacon would save your life? The areas at Big Sky that require a beacon the patrol can get to quickly and unlike back country situations the patrol making the response is well trained in beacon searches (and often have dogs). The first 50 and then alternating those with and without beacons at CB seems to have a motivation than safety.
Last edited by a moderator:
....but the gray jay will eat out of your hand....
I think the beacon policies may perfect sense. Note at CB they only alternate after 50 beacons have gone through. The first skiers are at most risk, so it's reasonable they should get priority for having beacons.
At Copper Mountain, a beacon gets you "expedited wait times for guests wearing avalanche beacons" on the free Tucker Snowcats:
http://www.coppercolorado.com/thing...ties/activities/free-tucker-mountain-snowcats
That's pretty broad and seems to be up to the patrol crew's judgment the few times I've seen it in play.
I don't have any doubt these beacon policies are about safety and driven by patrol. I think they are mostly trying to provide an incentive for more skiers to wear beacons. It's not just about avalanches, which do happen inbounds. A beacon will also help patrol find you in a tree well or if you are lost.
On big powder days or on higher risk terrain like Tucker Mtn I'll have a beacon, avalung pack, probe, and shovel. Compared to the cost of the rest of my gear, it's negligible and it lasts pretty much forever. I don't ski backcountry so that all for inbounds use or the occasional snowcat trip (where it's typically provided if you don't own your own).
From Copper Patrol:
“Ski patrol does its absolute best effort to mitigate all terrain, but it’s not an exact science. A fair amount of terrain at copper is extreme, so to be on the safe side, a smart skier skis with a buddy, and carries a beacon, a shovel and a probe. Tucker mountain, Copper Bowl, Union Bowl, Spaulding Bowl, Resolution Bowl, Drainpipe, Triple Zero—all of these areas can be amidst slide paths. Although some areas are closed or marked extreme terrain, not every entrance is marked with avalanche danger."
http://www.coppercolorado.com/culture/blog/all-blogs/safe-skiing-and-riding-at-copper
http://www.coppercolorado.com/culture/blog/all-blogs/safe-skiing-and-riding-at-copper
As I wrote on FB...
At least here (in Italy), one inch out of a groomed trail and you *are* out-of- bounds and on your own. And out-of-bounds here so means:
-Compulsory by law carry of avy gear, the three basic B.P.S., and hopefully knowledge of its use and knowlegde of mountains snow dynamics.
-You trigger an avalanche, anywhere, you might be charged with criminal offense.
-Out-of-bounds access (off piste skiing) can be forbidden by the authorities and enforced by patrollers-policemen in cases of extreme avalanche danger.
As I said, "it can be forbidden", it is not equal to "it is always forbidden".
For those who skied Europe oof pistes, the fact no one ever tried to restrict you means that you were in the right place in the right moment and maybe in company of a local
guide.
Furthermore, as long as you are equipped with the correct avy gear, (and have the right knowledge and skills) you are abiding the law (in italy).
But you are still on your own, as soon as you leave the groomed trails, and any mistake can be costly.
BTW, skills and equipment are not the only factors, one need, IMVHO, a good dose of luck as well.
God forbid, though, if you trigger an avalanche...then you will be in (serious) trouble.
Even worse if that avalanche were to invade a groomed trail or hit someone...
This might also apply anywhere else in the Alpine arc.
Quite a number of people have been fined for triggering avalanches (I witnessed quite a few policemen chasing people for skiing offpiste when forbidden)
And when the casualities count increases as it is in France this year (check this :)...
Then the newspapers will start pulling out pieces like this again: https://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1769115-20160119-avalanches-faut-interdire-hors-piste.
The last link contains a sentence that pretty much said what I was saying above about "Authorities" (equally applies in Italy) :
"En réalité, seuls les maires ou les préfets peuvent formellement interdire le hors-piste en publiant un arrêté qui limite cette pratique dans l’espace et dans le temps."
("In truth, only the Town Mayor and the Police Commissioner can formally forbid off piste skiing by publishing a decree which limits the practice in space and time")
BTW I got trapped in a stampede like that once at my hone hill, not at the top of a run, rather, at the lift entrance...interesting, funny (I was way back in the crowd,
but still got pushed and shoved), scaring and depressing all at the same time thing to be in and witness.
It was before the POV camera era, so did not film it, but I still remember the look on the lifty face when he cracked open the sliding acces door to the station
and said "you guys, do not push and shove, ok?"
As soon as he had finished his speech, the first guys in line wrenched open the door from him and everyone started to run to get acces to the tram first,
shoving other people out of their way, pushing like madmen. Lifty had to literally jump out of the way to avoid being trampled over by the stampede.
At least here (in Italy), one inch out of a groomed trail and you *are* out-of- bounds and on your own. And out-of-bounds here so means:
-Compulsory by law carry of avy gear, the three basic B.P.S., and hopefully knowledge of its use and knowlegde of mountains snow dynamics.
-You trigger an avalanche, anywhere, you might be charged with criminal offense.
-Out-of-bounds access (off piste skiing) can be forbidden by the authorities and enforced by patrollers-policemen in cases of extreme avalanche danger.
As I said, "it can be forbidden", it is not equal to "it is always forbidden".
For those who skied Europe oof pistes, the fact no one ever tried to restrict you means that you were in the right place in the right moment and maybe in company of a local
guide.
Furthermore, as long as you are equipped with the correct avy gear, (and have the right knowledge and skills) you are abiding the law (in italy).
But you are still on your own, as soon as you leave the groomed trails, and any mistake can be costly.
BTW, skills and equipment are not the only factors, one need, IMVHO, a good dose of luck as well.
God forbid, though, if you trigger an avalanche...then you will be in (serious) trouble.
Even worse if that avalanche were to invade a groomed trail or hit someone...
This might also apply anywhere else in the Alpine arc.
Quite a number of people have been fined for triggering avalanches (I witnessed quite a few policemen chasing people for skiing offpiste when forbidden)
And when the casualities count increases as it is in France this year (check this :)...
Then the newspapers will start pulling out pieces like this again: https://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1769115-20160119-avalanches-faut-interdire-hors-piste.
The last link contains a sentence that pretty much said what I was saying above about "Authorities" (equally applies in Italy) :
"En réalité, seuls les maires ou les préfets peuvent formellement interdire le hors-piste en publiant un arrêté qui limite cette pratique dans l’espace et dans le temps."
("In truth, only the Town Mayor and the Police Commissioner can formally forbid off piste skiing by publishing a decree which limits the practice in space and time")
BTW I got trapped in a stampede like that once at my hone hill, not at the top of a run, rather, at the lift entrance...interesting, funny (I was way back in the crowd,
but still got pushed and shoved), scaring and depressing all at the same time thing to be in and witness.
It was before the POV camera era, so did not film it, but I still remember the look on the lifty face when he cracked open the sliding acces door to the station
and said "you guys, do not push and shove, ok?"
As soon as he had finished his speech, the first guys in line wrenched open the door from him and everyone started to run to get acces to the tram first,
shoving other people out of their way, pushing like madmen. Lifty had to literally jump out of the way to avoid being trampled over by the stampede.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2015
- Posts
- 4,123
how did this conversation go from a rope drop on a powder filled groomer, to talk about skiing out of bounds in europe?
just to point out that...in other countries, there is no such a thing as a "rope drop". Count you "lucky"
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2015
- Posts
- 8,471
The internet.
So, in Europe, you are either on an approved groomed trail, or totally out of bounds, with all that entails. There is no in bounds off piste terrain, like trees, bumps and bowls?
And when it snows and fresh powder lays on top of the groomer, are you out of bounds again?
Just asking.
And when it snows and fresh powder lays on top of the groomer, are you out of bounds again?
Just asking.
Ok let's get back to North America, there was an in bounds slide at Squaw yesterday with an apparent fatality.
The Squaw fatality was the day before and unrelated to the avalanche. The avalanche did injure a couple people and trap a few more. Another patrol controlled avalanche inbounds was very visible. Combined, it made for big news.
I do worry that this will further restrict our ability to get resort powder. Already the resorts are pretty conservative regarding powder day openings - this can't help.
Eric
I do worry that this will further restrict our ability to get resort powder. Already the resorts are pretty conservative regarding powder day openings - this can't help.
Eric
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2017
- Posts
- 1,311
well,... spending all my life in and around the nyc metro aera, The last thing I want is to do is wait, be in a crowd, fight for space, and rush to nowhere, and I wouldn't care if it was 3 feet of fresh. I do enough if that crap on a daily basis...no thanks.
Sil ver Mt. AmyPJ. We are up to 329 inches this year. Yesterday had about 4 in. in am into lunch and stayed inside a little llonger than usual and came out and had another 3 in. The real kicker is the lack of people. Almost untracked powder at 3 pm.