Renoun Announces the Citadel

[Andy Mink]

Is there an advertised weight to go along with "carbon fiber" and 'lighter"? Could make a great side-country touring ski if light enough...

I emailed Renoun. According to them the 185cm is 1,950g/ski and the 191cm is estimated to be 2,100g/ski. For reference, the DPS Alchemist Wailer 106 in 185cm is 1,890g/ski and 2,005g/ski in 189.

 

[Tricia]

What I meant to say was......

Is there an advertised weight to go along with "carbon fiber" and 'lighter"? Could make a great side-country touring ski if light enough...

I'm going to put @Andy Mink on it.

I emailed Renoun. According to them the 185cm is 1,950g/ski and the 191cm is estimated to be 2,100g/ski. For reference, the DPS Alchemist Wailer 106 in 185cm is 1,890g/ski and 2,005g/ski in 189.

Good job Andy.

 

[Andy Mink]

What I meant to say was......

I'm going to put @Andy Mink on it.


Good job Andy.

I gotta do something during my forced time off the hill.

 

[fatbob]

@Eric Edelstein & ExoticSkis have the 185 & I’m getting em later this week!!!

I ordered up some 191’s today - the WhiteDot Ranger CarbonLite 108 is my hands down favorite carbon ski, yet it’s getting whooped out . I’m hoping the new Renoun dethrones em!

Bingo - my existing go-to ski. Interested to hear your views.

 

[ScottB]

Those weights from Andy maybe correct, but doesn't Renoun claim it is their lightest ski?

The Endurance 98 in 184 cm weighs 1750 grams. If the Citidel weighs 1950 grams in 185cm length, it is not their lightest ski by a long shot. Either there is some "spin" in their marketing statements, or they didn't give Andy the correct weights.To quote Renoun: " Full Carbon Construction makes the Citadel the lightest ski in our family". It is not a heavy ski, and lines up well with the DPS Alchemist skis. The Alchemist construction actually added about 150 grams to the ski, compared to the "Pure" construction, but it made a huge difference in the damping of the ski.

The HDT material maybe heavy (if similar weight to water) and you could "spin" things as a very light ski construction due to carbon, The complete package is light for an alpine ski, but I would say its fairly heavy for a "touring ski". I would be much more impressed if it weighed around 1700 grams and skis like a "big mtn" ski. The Endurance is almost there, so I am surprised the carbon ski is so much heavier.

 

[James]

Maybe lightest per sq cm. ?
It's not a touring ski.
Hdt is indeed heavy.
Head Kore 105 weighs 1845gms in 189 according to Blister.

 

[mikel]

I'm not sure I understand "spin in their marketing statements" Sorry I keep referencing the podcast but for me he makes some key statements about weight.

Go to the podcast and around 44:30 and Cyrus clearly states "I don't care about counting grams". Lightest ski doesn't seem to be a high priority and I have never seen any marketing around lightness other than comparing to their own skis. He states the goal of this ski. "Not to make the lightest ski in the world but make a light ski, something that is not heavy, and does not suck going downhill"

 

[Freddo Bumps]

I'm not sure I understand "spin in their marketing statements" Sorry I keep referencing the podcast but for me he makes some key statements about weight.

Go to the podcast and around 44:30 and Cyrus clearly states "I don't care about counting grams". Lightest ski doesn't seem to be a high priority and I have never seen any marketing around lightness other than comparing to their own skis. He states the goal of this ski. "Not to make the lightest ski in the world but make a light ski, something that is not heavy, and does not suck going downhill"

Still, they say it’s their lightest ski, so the question is valid. Weight/sq cm is the likely reconciliation, as @James points out.

 

[James]

I'm sure it's light enough. Most super light skis are garbage going down. Like the boots.

 

[ScottB]

What I mean by "spin" is:

To quote Renoun's website: " Full Carbon Construction makes the Citadel the lightest ski in our family".

How can they claim this since the Endurance 98 in 184 cm weighs 1750 grams, the Citidel weighs 1950 grams in 185cm length, it is not their lightest ski by a long shot.

James explanation makes sense, and maybe the correct explantion. I can think of several others (the person doing the marketing didn't make final adjustments after the final iteration of prototypes, etc....) Earler versions of the ski may have been much lighter? I do agree the ski lines up well with the statements Cyrus made in the Blister Podcast. As an engineer, I am just a little surprised Renoun makes a claim that isn't pretty straight forward.

For myself, I am thinking about getting a 50/50 ski with the new Shift binding. A ski like the DPS Alchemist or this Citadel is just what I am looking for. I would say that if the Citadel was much heavier, it would put it out of the running for me.

 

[skibob]

What I mean by "spin" is:

To quote Renoun's website: " Full Carbon Construction makes the Citadel the lightest ski in our family".

How can they claim this since the Endurance 98 in 184 cm weighs 1750 grams, the Citidel weighs 1950 grams in 185cm length, it is not their lightest ski by a long shot.

James explanation makes sense, and maybe the correct explantion. I can think of several others (the person doing the marketing didn't make final adjustments after the final iteration of prototypes, etc....) Earler versions of the ski may have been much lighter? I do agree the ski lines up well with the statements Cyrus made in the Blister Podcast. As an engineer, I am just a little surprised Renoun makes a claim that isn't pretty straight forward.

For myself, I am thinking about getting a 50/50 ski with the new Shift binding. A ski like the DPS Alchemist or this Citadel is just what I am looking for. I would say that if the Citadel was much heavier, it would put it out of the running for me.

This is definitely a hair that one could spend time splitting. But, as the (ecstatic) owner of a pair of Z-90s, I would be much more interested in putting the effort into finding out when I can get on a pair.

At the end of the day, yes, you've identified a seeming contradiction. Its a small, new company doing an exceptional job in a difficult market. I'm willing to cut them a little slack on a matter with zero actual impact.

 

[ScottB]

I don't mean to get spun up about it, my actual point is I am not sure I believe the weight numbers from Andy. I am not questioning his integrity or correctness, but I am questioning if his source had the right info? I have called a different small ski factory and been given bogus info by a new employee that was trying to be helpful. We are not talking about large companies with well staffed customer service personnel.

Someone soon will weigh the skis and publish the numbers. I could also be completely wrong and Andy's info spot on, wouldn't surprise me a bit.

To get on a pair, there is a northern Vt Pugski gathering this weekend that is less than an hour's drive from the Renoun factory. There is no established connection between the two that I know of, but just saying.

 

[James]

Suffice to say these are not the lightest 106mm skis you could buy. If one is not planning on a full on light tech binding, the weight obsession is just a numbers obsession. Makes little difference.

Poor use of carbon ruins a ski but it may be very light. Seems like it's much easier to make a nice flexing and torsionally rigid ski by using aluminum sheet, Titanal, but it's heavier. I see the Enforcer 110 is using two sheets. 2,200 gms at 185 according to Blister.

The old Kastle 1st gen Fx's used two thin sheets. That was a pretty good balance of light yet substance. They abandoned that approach though.

Btw, I hope you're outraged over companies' claiming "titanium" when it's Titanal. Not to mention the g word.

Afaik, Renoun skis are made in Quebec not VT.

 

[Philpug]

This is definitely a hair that one could spend time splitting. But, as the (ecstatic) owner of a pair of Z-90s, I would be much more interested in putting the effort into finding out when I can get on a pair.

At the end of the day, yes, you've identified a seeming contradiction. Its a small, new company doing an exceptional job in a difficult market. I'm willing to cut them a little slack on a matter with zero actual impact.

Want to get on the new Endurance 98?

 

[skibob]

Want to get on the new Endurance 98?

I sure as heck am not going to say no to that!

 

[Philpug]

I sure as heck am not going to say no to that!

Meet me at Rose or Squalpine one day?

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Weights of my current line-up
Renoun Endurance 98's (184) 1750 G
Volkl Katana V-Works (184) 1960G
Faction Dictators 3.0 (182) 1996G
Volkl Mantra M5 (177) 2078G
At 1950G the Citadel's would create a problem of too many choices.
Need to buy the wife a pair of Volkl Secrets before I can get a new $1500 powder ski.
Reading these Pugski reviews just stokes the desire for more toys.

 

[skibob]

Meet me at Rose or Squalpine one day?

I might be at Squalpine first week of April. I'll PM you!

 

[David Chaus]

From Renoun’s website:

“THE MOST STABLE FULL-CARBON SKI. EVER.”
“The Citadel 106 has been a vision of ours since the inception of RENOUN. Wider, lighter, carbon fiber. More HDT, less chatter. Everything you need to build a super ski unlike any other. After 3 years of R&D - Research & Dreaming, we’ve made it a reality.”

I don’t think the focus is just on light weight, but on what HDT does, that other primarily carbon skis on the market don’t.

 

[Eric Edelstein]

First Tracks on the CItadel:

We've been testing the 185cm Renoun Citadel 106 in the following conditions for several days here in Vermont..

• Shin-deep to knee-deep super-fluffy powder in tight Eastern trees and wide open terrain...gentle to steep slopes
• Squeeky-dry, stryofoam-like packed powder conditions groomed to a high density (leave small edge tracks..no banking tracks)
• Wind-buffed, packed 3-day old post-storm crappy, flakeslabs.

Actual measured weight and length:

• 1744g
• 1721g
• 182cm straight tape pull tip-to-tail

Comments From Tester Jeff Tolbert:

"Got them up to 79.8 mph, according to the GPS. Still no sense of chatter or wobble. Really want to try the longer version... I'll just have to get a pair! Not a lot of untracked left, but found a bit and they were happy little clams. Very happy!"

"The human mind is hard wired to seek out faults. It's a survival instinct. So let's take a look at the new Renoun Citadel.

Pick them up and they almost fly out of your hands. Unexpected, having a wide, hefty looking ski weigh so little. Way too light.

The graphics match all the Euro gear for next year. Really, I just received a promo boot pack in the exact same colors. "But graphics don't matter," you say. Sure, companies never worry about that, or have teams of well payed employees working on the graphics.

What do these graphics mean for you? This was the first pair of Renoun test skis that received questions just on their looks, from people who had no previous knowledge of the brand, the buzz, or the non-Newtonian physics. But, most importantly, when you put your Citadels together they don't create one piece of art. So you don't have a left and right side, you can swap left and right skis without messing up some pattern. The way these want to go downhill, and the edging you will be doing, this is a great thing.

Way too good a grip on groomed. Did you ever ski with a person of a certain age who has a style that seems effortless? These emulate that style. Even at over 60 miles per hour. No chatter, no wobble, just a stable ski.

So, despite the request to be ruthless in our criticism I'm having trouble trying to find something wrong with this model.

Did they do it? I think so."


My comments:

• Effortless, refreshingly light (1744g and 1721g measured) and nimble in tight eastern trees, both steep and low-angle terrain
  
  
• Compliant and surfy when skied lazily (see vid), yet solid and reliable when pressured in tight conditions with zero tail-washout thanks to the relatively flat tail and camber profile. Confidence level underfoot is rock-solid in virgin or cut-up soft conditions.
  
  
• Elegant open-powder surfing turn shapes and smearability for a ski with minimal tip and tail splay and long camber zone mid-body…unsually good open powder behavior for a minimal rocker design. Feels like it's as long as it measures in 185cm…does not ski super short…maaaayyyybe 180cm feel.
  
  
• Bias toward highly-accurate directional handling rather than loose-and-surfy smearing personality. Good balance between line-holding tenacity and smeary driftability.
  
  
• Eerily quiet, yet eager feeling and very responsive underfoot without a hint of darty behavior in 3D snow. Nearly zero deflection from junk under the surfaces.
  
  
• Feels a little dead on packed powder surfaces until you realize the turn intensity you can get out of the shaping and camber. I get the same feeling from some serious race skis on hardpack….until you realize it's not "dead", but "quiet" without giving off a "heavyweight" impression underfoot.
  
  
• Higher speeds through cut-up, skied-out powder snow is totally quiet and controlled, with quickly responsive directional changes on demand. Just a hint of wander at speed running flat.
  
  
• The response and feel is unique for ski with these dimensions. Damp and quiet without a heavy-feel, yet eager and energetic both in low-pressure and higher-pressure turn events.
  
  
• Packed powder carving prowess is class-leading....right with the DPS Wailer 106 Alchemist (one of my favorite skis this season). I honestly have a mental conflict about a ski with touring-class weight (or lack thereof) that trenches lines at warp 9 speeds on dense packed surfaces with silkly quiet confidence. You can crank multiple radii turns in carving mode and the Citadel doesn't protest. No balking, no washout, no fight-back...the harder you crank them, the deeper they dive into the turns with slot-car like traction. Do not put a base bevel more than 0.5 degrees on this ski...trust me....you don't want to waste its ability to engage the forebody quickly and with authority.
  
  
• I had several carving skis between 82 and 95mm underfoot for hardpack testing...and found myself spending the most time on the Citadel 106. That might give you a clue about this ski.

We will have a full, formal review of the Citadel later...but I figured we would put our observations out there ASAP since people are interested with this announcement.
Cyrus has a patent for a reason. This is a unique chassis with really addicting qualities. Ski manufacturers everywhere should study this ski's construction principles and component ratios. It represents, in my opinion, a milestone in performance versatility in a remarkably lightweight design. It's a good time to be a skier!
I'm sure there are some undesired behaviors in this ski somewhere....just haven't found them yet after a few days....