Renoun Announces the Citadel

[graham418]

Thanks for the response. So your factory line is the correct location for an average size skier (I assume male, so 5'10", 180 lbs). And if someone has a personal preference, then move forward or back from the line. That is where I thought you were coming from. From my own personal experience I would add: if you are larger than average, move back due to a larger boot size and if smaller than average with a smaller boot size, move forward of the line.

The way I interpret Graham's post is he is asking what the factory recommend mounting point is? I think the answer should have been "use the factory line" on this ski. He is coming from posts that your factory line on other skis is not the best starting point. I think there were posts about the proto Citadel that said 33" from the tail is the best mounting point for an "average size skier". I may be wrong, but I don't think Graham decided -2cm was good for him and he was actually asking where should the "average skier" mount position be on this particular ski. He was asking for confirmation that the posted number of 33" for this ski is still correct. And I think your answer for this production ski is "the factory line" is the best starting point, as there have been changes on the production ski as compared to the proto versions. He is mounting movable bindings and wants to know where to center the boot before moving forward or back.

Graham, was my interpretation of your first post correct?

Yes. Looking for a jumping off point. 33" from the tail is the -2 mark .Others on this thread have mentioned it. Just wanted confirmation.

Gotchya - sorry! Where do you ski most of the time? Skill level?

Advanced skier. I will be using these out west for the most part.

 

[Tytlynz64]

Sure!
@graham418 asked if 33" put him at -2cm behind the line, and I confirmed. The recommended line is still where it's at and it's up to each user to decide exactly where they want to mount. Looks like Graham decided -2cm was good for him.
I chose -1cm for mine because I'm 6'6", 210lbs and really should be skiing a 198-202cm ski or something. The extra 1cm for me is to ooch out a little more length. I could have gone -2cm+, but I tend to ski more 'progressive' ie more neutral stance (I've been told it's a millennial thing ).
At the end of the day, it's all up to each person to decide where to mount. Our "factory recommended" is exactly that - recommended. Moving a binding backward or forwards will have the same general effect no matter the ski manufacturer (all skis are basically sticks with a part of a circle cut out of them). When in doubt, put it at recommended. When you have experience with your own skiing style/snow conditions/terrain to know you like a ski forward or back, that's when you can start mounting in different places.
Hope this helps!

Good answer. Can't wait for the Black Friday Sale!

 

[Foss1997]

Anyone with direct experience between the Citadel and Alchemist Wailer 106?

Looking to replace my aging Wailer 112 RP Pure's with something a little more versatile on non storm days and perhaps a bit more fun/lively/energetic on the groomer back to the lift. Love the versatile turn shape of the 112's but some kick out of a turn would be nice.

Thx in advance.

 

[Tricia]

Anyone with direct experience between the Citadel and Alchemist Wailer 106?

Looking to replace my aging Wailer 112 RP Pure's with something a little more versatile on non storm days and perhaps a bit more fun/lively/energetic on the groomer back to the lift. Love the versatile turn shape of the 112's but some kick out of a turn would be nice.

Thx in advance.

I will soon!!!

 

[ScottB]

I have skied both the Citadel and the Wailer 106 last season. I have also skied the Wailer 112 Alchemist. The wailer 112 felt like a wide powder ski to me, not much fun on hard packed groomers. Never had it in soft snow. The Alchemist 106 is much different. Much more of a carver, has a nice tip that pulls you into a turn. I had them on hard pack, typical Northeast conditions, but they were pretty enjoyable. A little underdamped, but not bad for such a light ski. I really liked the ski and would definitely own it. I skied the Citadel proto in spring conditions. Its very light like the 106 and slightly underdamped compared to a heavier ski. It didn't have as aggressive a tip that pulled you into a turn, but it carved well. The ski had some tune issues and wasn't on its best behaiver. I will say the HDT was quite noticeable and the harder you pushed the ski the stiffer it got. It was impressive for a light ski.

 

[chopchop]

Yes, measure from the tail because mount points while the should be consistant..are not.

@Philpug - are measurements done flat on the table beneath the curving ski tail? Or does one measure with the tape measure clipped at the ski tail and then flat along/touching the surface of the ski?

 

[cantunamunch]

Along the topsheet - from the side one drills

 

[chopchop]

Along the topsheet - from the side one drills

Somewhere else I read it's "a straight tape measure pull from the tail." That makes it sound like one keeps the tape taught, diagonal from the tail then touching again at the MP.

Is that correct, or does one put the tape flat against the topsheet throughout the measurement?

 

[David Chaus]

IIRC Blister measures by tape pull, from tip to tail, regardless of tip and tail rise. I’m not sure who else does this. Well actually ON3P measures the length of their skis after pressing, which apparently is kind of unusual. Apparently most manufactures have a length of ski they’ve determined, then run it through the ski press, which changes the length due to the tip/tail rise and camber.

I find effective edge, or running length, to be a more useful metric, unless you’re in soft snow, in which case you might actually use all the length of a ski, whereas in packed snow the tip and tail rise isn’t in contact with the snow.

I apologize, for the excessive use, of commas.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Somewhere else I read it's "a straight tape measure pull from the tail." That makes it sound like one keeps the tape taught, diagonal from the tail then touching again at the MP.

Is that correct, or does one put the tape flat against the topsheet throughout the measurement?

The former. If the ski has tail rise or twin tip, the tape will not touch the top sheet. If it is a race ski, or something with no tail rise or top, then the tape will touch the ski.

It is very important to measure consistently of course with the same tension and the identical contact point location on the tail. Even if you are just going to use the ski's manufacturer's recommended location, it is wise to verify that mark is in the same place on both skis. Quite often they are off. Usually just a mm or so, but I've seen them off from each other by inches.

 

[Philpug]

@Philpug - are measurements done flat on the table beneath the curving ski tail? Or does one measure with the tape measure clipped at the ski tail and then flat along/touching the surface of the ski?

On the topskin. The ski barely has any turned up tail. Measure straight and you are fine. You are welcome to run it along the ski perfect that miiiiight change it 1/16" of an inch. Don't over think it.

 

[chopchop]

Thanks

The former. If the ski has tail rise or twin tip, the tape will not touch the top sheet. If it is a race ski, or something with no tail rise or top, then the tape will touch the ski.

It is very important to measure consistently of course with the same tension and the identical contact point location on the tail. Even if you are just going to use the ski's manufacturer's recommended location, it is wise to verify that mark is in the same place on both skis. Quite often they are off. Usually just a mm or so, but I've seen them off from each other by inches.

On the topskin. The ski barely has any turned up tail. Measure straight and you are fine. You are welcome to run it along the ski perfect that miiiiight change it 1/16" of an inch. Don't over think it.

Thank Fellas.

@Philpug - This is actually for a Bluehouse Maestro, not the ski in the thread. The Maestro lacks any kind of mount or center line, but I do have the rec measurements from the tail for trad and for jibby.

I'm still a little unclear, though. This is a deep rocker twin tip. So the tape should or shouldn't lay directly on the topsheet in this case? Doug seems to be saying it should but Phil says measure straight.

Thanks.

 

[chopchop]

I'm still a little unclear, though. This is a deep rocker twin tip. So the tape should or shouldn't lay directly on the topsheet in this case? Doug seems to be saying it should but Phil says measure straight.

I was rushing on first read (and reply) and got it backwards. @Doug Briggs - you couldn't have been clearer. And the extra context is super helpful.

So, I am gathering that a straight pull means just what it sounds like. No overthinking needed!

Thanks you two.

 

[PisteOff]

I’ve relied on @Philpug for all my mounting positions on my Renouns, except for the first pair which I ended up changing because v2 endurance had tails that hooked too much. Anyway, @ChunderBlunder and I have 5 pair of Renouns. Z’s (2), Endurance (1), Citadel (2). Phil’s dims have been on the mark for us. As stated, don’t overthink it. I pulled the taped of the tail and sharpied a mark. I had 1 shop call me. Christie’s Beaver Creek called to inform me I was 1mm off from one ski to the other with my marks. I chuckled and said split the difference. I ran into a woman at the 2019 Gathering. She was staying at our hotel. She had V2 endurance. She approached me when she saw my skis. We talked. She said she couldn’t get comfortable on them. I grabbed one looked at the mount and told her to remount -2. A couple days later I ran into her in the lounge. I drank for free. . She had made friends with her skis and loved them. As you all remember 2019 Big Sky was 6-12” fresh everyday we were there. Good times. Thanks to Phil for his due diligence with regard to this brand...and many others. Much appreciated. I’m always happy to talk RENOUN with anyone who has questions.