• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

blikkem

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Posts
67
Location
NYC
I'm also glad I found this site a week ago on my own, really sad about EpicSki. All that entertaining advice and valuable information will be lost. One of the few positive online communities out there. Way more caring people then there were trolls and bullies.
 

Uncle Louie

The Original Gathermeister
Skier
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Posts
499
It just occurred to me that you and @Uncle Louie and @SugarCube were the first "internet" people I skied with. That was a bit ago....

.... and at Vail! :ogcool:

And how far we all have come ! That has to be at least 11 years ago. It's amzing how many people have made connections through the EpicSki events that were held.

I have been an Epic Pass holder pretty much since it started, skipping only the 2015 season and not renewing this coming season. Right now I'm pretty happy that I shifted to the Mountain Collective for next season while I wait for the results of the Aspen purchases to play out and consider a pass if they offer something that works.

It's clearly time to move on....and here at PugSki is the place to do it. It's time to reconnect with old friends and make a few new ones. It's only EpicSki that's dead (and it's been dying for awhile). The rest of us are alive and well.
 

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
Pass Pulled
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,338
I still haven't met and skied with you Uncle Louie and still hope to!

I too got married by ssh at Vail.
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
I'm also glad I found this site a week ago on my own, really sad about EpicSki. All that entertaining advice and valuable information will be lost. One of the few positive online communities out there. Way more caring people then there were trolls and bullies.

are you sure you and I were reading the same page?

The thing about epicski.com is that posters post stupid,backwards. misleading and just wrong info. You try to go against the grain and be right and then they hide behind the vail of moderation. I feel like I was bullied more on epicski.com than ANY other web forum I have ever been on. It one thing on TGR someone calls you a gaper, you can say anything you want right back. On epicski.com posters would attack you, and then you would attack back, only to get moderators who did not like you(Bob,phil and tricia not included) , there are epic forum members/moderators I am personally not stoked to see come over there. They know who they are. I am worried that a majority opinion will out weigh a minority that is correct. Or silence it, in epic style fashion if any of those little authoritarians get there power back.
 

Uncle Louie

The Original Gathermeister
Skier
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Posts
499
I still haven't met and skied with you Uncle Louie and still hope to!

I too got married by ssh at Vail.

Ditto Steve. We will get out on the hill someday.

I remember you too got married by ssh. My wife and I actually MET on EpicSki so seeing the "Wedding Day" posts and pictures vanish with the closing of Epic is a little tough especially as it happens in the same month as our ten year anniversary.

I did solve one problem though. How to change the graphics on those skis you helped me win.......I need Phil to send me a "Pug" sticker to cover the word Epic. Then we'll be in business!

Get a Mountain Collective Pass and get your butt to Utah for The Gathering there.
 

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
Pass Pulled
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,338
We own a timeshare near Golden Peak, so it's hard not to ski Vail. There are so many trails and areas there that are benchmarks for me in my skiing development as well.

Will try to make the Gathering though!
 

blikkem

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Posts
67
Location
NYC
@Josh Matta
Here are my experiences. Maybe I didn't post enough to run into those problems with the moderators.

EpicSki: I post a question, I get a bunch of answers from people who seem willing to be constructive with their advice and share their experiences to back it up. Even the people I don't agree with are diluted by the many more helpful people who make the others easier to ignore.

TGR: I post a question, I'm called a JONG and gaper in a very condescending matter, consistently. I defend myself and my words are picked on like unimaginative adolescence would do. I can only imagine that they saw how new I was to the site and once one of them started they all felt it was open season. They were so proud to make it difficult for me, like a toll to use their site. Of the two pages of replies only 2 were helpful answers, one of them did so because he felt bad for me but respected that I kept defending myself. Not fun. I can laugh it off some of the comments were well thought out and witty but it wasn't even close.
 

1chris5

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Posts
458
Location
Snowshoe, WV

fatbob

Not responding
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,329
Re Tgr - think of it like a frat house with its own hazing rituals and memes. Baffling to an outsider but once in you've got bros/ sistas for life. Take it personally or make the mistake of thinking everyone there is actually a juvenile and it probably isn't the right place for you.
 

Dwight

Practitioner of skiing, solid and liquid
Admin
Moderator
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Posts
7,469
Location
Central Wisconsin
Dang not enough time to copy the forum.. Hmm I will have to see how much disk space I have. One can use HTTRack or similar software to download the content. But probably best to do certain topics
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
27,605
Location
Reno
I am worried that a majority opinion will out weigh a minority that is correct. Or silence it, in epic style fashion
The way we see it -
Your vibe will attract your Tribe
As long as we continue to set the tone and create the right vibe, we will continue to have the good discussions that we have enjoyed here. Thank you for being a part of that.
 

Jim McDonald

愛スキー
Skier
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Posts
2,101
Location
Tokyo
TGR is the Don Rickles of the ski world; be proud to have been jong'd! :duck:
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,887
Location
Reno, eNVy
Before it gets too far...You will not find a more established, loyal, intelligent group of skiers than you will at TGR. We will NOT get into an us vs. them comparison. Many members here are members there, myself included.
 

Lorenzzo

Be The Snow
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
2,984
Location
UT
I participated in a forum in another sport that closed to new members and so eventually died off. Some who were active still post about once a year in reunion form. It was TGR like, maybe better written and less juvenile. Like TGR there were some pretty accomplished people participating as well as crankpots and crackpots.

I'm someone who moved from Southern Cal to PC partly because I realized I like small towns more than big ones. I may move again as PC grows. Many things in life are fleeting
 

McEl

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Posts
29
Is there a designated place on PUG where materials from Epic can be saved temporarily pending a more deliberate effort to organize them?
For example, Barnes' Glossary:

EpicSkiPerformance Articles › The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing—EpicSki Skiing Glossary


The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing—EpicSki Skiing Glossary

By: Bob Barnes
Posted 12/29/12 • Last updated 3/28/17 • 76,745 views




This project presents a brief and concise glossary of many common skiing and ski teaching concepts, including both contemporary and historical terms. It is by no means a complete list. For more in-depth coverage of these concepts and many more, see the original The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing, Third Edition, by Bob Barnes, currently available in PDF e-book format through EpicSki.com (PM @Bob Barnes directly).


In addition to brief definitions, this glossary includes a few explanatory images, as well as links to the ever-growing collection of video clips in my Vimeo.com channel, “The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing.”





Click here to enter the Vimeo.com channel of The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing.


This article is a living, growing document that I will update regularly as time allows. Much of it was written originally in or before 1998. Modern ski shapes were just coming into the mainstream, and the current trends of freestyle, park and pipe, and “big-mountain” competitions were but distant blips on the radar. New technologies, new techniques, new understanding, and new trends continuously add to the lexicon, while some terms have fallen into disuse or even seen a shift in common meaning. There is much work to be done, and It is a constant labor to keep this document current. Stay tuned!

I welcome suggestions for additional terms, and I encourage discussion of any of these terms and concepts in the forums of EpicSki. Please begin with a post to the thread, The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing EpicSki Glossary project discussion, but do not hesitate also to start new threads for deeper exploration.

Except where otherwise noted, all opinion and content here, including words, images, animations, and video, is mine alone, and may not represent the opinions of EpicSki.com or any of its representatives or owners—or anyone else, for that matter! Skiing is a fluid, dynamic, and diverse activity, and healthy differences of opinion and perspective not only exist, but provide the basis for vigorous and productive discussion. As I always say in clinics and lessons, do not believe anything I tell you! (And don't believe anything anyone else tells you either. Indeed--question even your own most strongly held beliefs.) It is only through challenging statements and questioning that real understanding develops. Knowledge (merely the bottom rung on the ladder to understanding—see "Bloom's Taxonomy," below) begins with accepting answers. Understanding begins with questions! I welcome the discussion.

_______________________________________________________

Important Note:
Except as specifically noted, all content herein is copyrighted material, with all rights reserved. Also included are certain trademarked terms of PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America™) and other entities, as noted. All opinions expressed in this article are exclusively those of the author, and may or may not represent the policies or opinions of any other person or organization.
_______________________________________________________


A-Frame
“knock-kneed” stance that often indicates insufficient inside leg activity, or a need for canting or boot adjustment



Abduction
movement of leg or other body part AWAY from a center axis (“legs apart”)


Adduction (body part movement toward a center line) and Abduction (movement away from a center line).


Ability
Unlike “skills,” which are learned, abilities involve both learned and innate components and are less specific to a particular activity; think “skiing skills” but natural “athletic ability”

Ability Level
How good are you? What is an "expert"? These questions are so subjective that they are impossible to answer definitively. But ski schools have long attempted to classify skiing ability as objectively as possible, primarily to simplify the process of placing students in the right classes. PSIA has adopted a 1-9 level description hoping to standardize the process, but many ski schools these days use their own proprietary descriptions of skill level.

Here is my general description, intended to parallel or complement the PSIA levels 1-9. It describes terrain, conditions, and situations in which a skier is "comfortable and confident"--not just what the skier can get down. It describes "offensive" technique--using gliding turns to control line, and tactics (that is, line) to control speed, as opposed to relying on braking and skidding for speed control. Recognizing that "wedge" and "parallel" in contemporary skiing are not distinct techniques or turn options, it describes these characteristics as representative "milestones" of advancing skill involving the same fundamental technical principles. It suggests that "challenge" is not so much about what terrain you can survive, but about continuous improvement and how well you can ski any particular terrain, including easiest green groomed runs (see Level 9). Finally, it emphasizes technique as a means to an end--athleticism and skill, not "final form"--and values versatility, adaptability, and virtuosity over "perfection" of any single particular technique.

Skier Ability Level guide. (Click on the image for a larger version.)

Absorption
flexion and extension movements, often necessarily vigorous, used to smooth out bumps and other terrain variations; the French term "avalement," meaning "to swallow," describes the large, active, intentional movements required to absorb large moguls



The flexiing and extending movements of absorption in large bumps involve both "up-down" and fore-aft movements, resulting in a motion of the feet relative to the body that resembles "backpedaling" on a bicycle.


The "backpedal motion" of absorption in real moguls; skier: competitor at Copper Mountain



Abstem
a “downstem”—lateral displacement of the tail of the downhill ski; especially (but not necessarily) an unintentional downstem at the end of a turn in an attempt to set an edge


Abstem—note the outside (left) ski tail slipping out and away in frame 8, as a result of upper body rotation at the turn initiation.


Accelerated Frame of Reference
the skier’s point of view—the usual frame of reference when analyzing (or experiencing) ski technique, in which centrifugal and other inertial forces are “real” forces that the skier must act to balance against; compare with “inertial frame of reference”

Acceleration
a change in speed or direction of motion (a change in velocity); results when (and only when) an unbalanced external motive force applies to an object.



Unlike common usage, the strict physics definition of acceleration goes beyond just increasing speed to include any change in motion--including slowing down, or changing direction even with no change in speed. Any time a force acts unopposed (an "unbalanced force") on an object, the result will be the same thing: the object will accelerate. Whether it gains or loses speed or changes direction, or any combination, depends entirely on the direction of the force relative to the object's motion.



Acute Mountain Sickness
"AMS," or "altitude sickness," refers to a variety of symptoms and effects, ranging from mild to life-threatening, that can result from the thinner, drier air of high elevations above 6,000 feet (2,000 meters). Likelihood and severity of symptoms increase with increasing altitude.



For more information, refer to Dr. Dave Polaner's excellent EpicSki article, Altitude Adaptation and Acute Mountain Sickness.

Adduction
movement of leg or other body part TOWARD a center axis (“legs together”); opposite of "Abduction." (See illustration under "Abduction.")

Aerial
AKA "jumps," aerials are skiing maneuvers performed in the air, typically involving "tricks" of some sort—spins, flips, grabs, and combinations, usually launched from a large bump, a cornice, or a purpose-built jump, usually (but not always!) intentionally.



Inverted Aerials. Olympic medalist (moguls) Bryon Wilson, World Moguls Champion Patrick Deneen, freestyle ace Sammy Carlson, Patrick Deneen





Upright aerials: Cossack Spread Eagle and MuleKick BackScratcher (Willi Furr), Daffy (PhilPug).

All images © Bob Barnes.







AFD

Anti-Friction Device—a part of modern ski bindings intended to reduce release-inhibiting friction under the boot toe from, especially, a forward twisting fall. It is often a small, slippery plate made of plastic or Teflon®-type material that the boot toe rests on, and some bindings incorporate a mechanical device of various sorts that moves with the boot.



An AFD on a Vist plate binding.





Affective Domain
Part of the CAP Model ("Cognitive-Affective-Psychomotor"), the affective domain of learning and development encompasses emotion, motivation, valuing, and commitment to learning. The CAP Model attempts to define hierarchical or sequential phases of development, from lowest to highest, in each domain. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs represents one interpretation of the Affective Domain, specifically identifying a hierarchy of situational needs, with the suggestion that each higher level depends upon the levels below it being met or satisfied:


Maslow's Hierarchy of Motivational Needs


Alignment
refers to positions of various body parts and how they move relative to each other when skiing; varies according to the specific mechanics of each turn; good alignment is essential for efficient and safe skiing.

"Alignment" also refers to the various concerns of specialized boot fitting and equipment setup intended to adapt unique individual body morphologies to the specific demands of skiing. Major issues include correcting for over-pronation and over-supination, addressing ankle function and range of motion, optimizing forward lean, and correcting for "under-edged" or "over-edged" conditions.



AMS

Acute Mountain Sickness (see), also commonly known as "altitude sickness."


Angular Momentum
property of a rotating object that describes its “quantity” of rotation; a function of its speed and direction of rotation, and the amount and distribution of its mass

Angular Motion
the motion of objects revolving or spinning about an axis



The spinning, twisting, and rotating movements of angular motion, as opposed to movement along a path from one place to another known as linear motion.




Angulation
Sideways bending movements of the ankles, knees, hips, or spine that allow control and adjustment of edge angle, angulation is one of two movement types that affect edge angle and tipping of the skis. See also "inclination" (leaning the center of mass into the turn for balance, which may occur in company with angulation or not) and "banking" (the special case of inclination without angulation, or leaning the entire body into the turn).


Angulation; skiers: Annie Black (left) and "Tog"


Anticipation
countered, “wound-up” arrangement of the upper and lower body prior to a turn; creates tension in the muscles that, when released, helps initiate the turn



Anticipation-Release; skier: "Tog" at Arapahoe Basin

Applied Force
the push or pull that causes change in motion (acceleration); also known as “motive force” (compare with “inertial force”)



AT

"Alpine Touring"—refers to specific equipment for, as well as the activity of, climbing uphill and skiing on skis with "AT bindings" that allow the boot heels to lift for easier hiking and then lock the heels down to enable skiing downhill with standard alpine technique.


ATS™ (American Teaching System™)
PSIA’s humanistic ski-teaching scheme that incorporates the Skills Concept™, a Teaching Model based on established educational principles, the Center Line™ Skiing Model, and a model for Guest Service

Avalement
active absorption movements, as in “swallowing” moguls, involving deep flexing and extending movements of the entire body




Instructor Annie Black swallows a bump with "avalement." Notice her similar movements below in heavy, wind-blown crud at Snowmass (in green) and in Laure Pequegnot's winning World Cup slalom run at Copper Mountain:



Banking
inclination (tipping) of the entire body into a turn, with little or no angulation. Banking is not the same thing as "inclination," which refers to leaning (moving the center of mass) into a turn for balance. Inclination occurs in all turns that require balance—on skis, bicycles, or walking and running. Angulation refers to sideways (more or less) bending of the body, generally to adjust or control edge angle. Inclination and angulation are separate and independent—one a move of the center of mass, the other movements of body parts relative to each other—and good skiing demands management of both, independently. Banking is merely the special case of inclination without angulation.


Annie Black, showing that banking is not always an error!

Banking is sometimes considered an error, particularly when accompanied by rotation of the upper body. But many high-performance turns involve significant banking. When the inclination due to speed and turn radius provides sufficient edge angle on its own, very little angulation is needed to keep the skis holding and carving (see "critical edge angle").

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

B through Z to follow.
 
Top