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Does a woman's ski need a unique name or is the unisex name with W good enough?

  • A unique name is better

    Votes: 5 19.2%
  • Unisex model name with W is fine

    Votes: 21 80.8%

  • Total voters
    26

Analisa

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Bringing back this thread. What do you guys think abut Fischer dropping the My? They have essentially dropped the women's line and are producing skis for lighter skiers and skis for heavier skiers with pretty much the same graphics across the line. The same for boots. I am amused by the Ranger 102 which they did the opposite of shrink it and pink it. They made it bigger - and pinked it.

I talked to the guys at Blister about this for their next decade of gear predictions - women’s lines are moving in 2 directions, some really investing in their women’s messaging (Blizzard women2women, K2 Alliance, Rossi We Rise, Elan W Studio) and others rolling their gendered lines into one (Faction made the first move last season & is followed by Fischer & DPS). There’s a ton of momentum in women’s sports across all disciplines, but the Gen Z customer also really hates gendered products unless it’s totally necessary. It's going to be interesting to see how the women's market looks over the next decade - I think we'll be seeing more of this.

For Fischer's Ranger line, I definitely think it was the right choice. The MyRangers didn't sell well, reviews weren't complimentary. I never got the sense that Fischer really understood what women skiers wanted and never dialed in on those small tweaks that women like in an all-mountain-freeride line (like the subtle differences between the Secret/M5, Santa Ana/Enforcer, Sheeva/Rustler). If a brand can't afford that depth of market research and all of the associated marketing levers to move it, the strategy of "skiers are skiers" costs nothing and gets you 90% of the way there.
 

zircon

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They have essentially dropped the women's line and are producing skis for lighter skiers and skis for heavier skiers with pretty much the same graphics across the line.
I kind of like the idea of building skis for skiers. There are smaller guys who would do better on what traditionally would be a women's ski and there are women who would do better on traditionally men's skis.

I've been hoping for something like this to happen for some time. If only because nobody in a demo shop wants to let me (at 125-130 pounds, 164cm tall, and runner not gym rat) try a women's ski... Maybe this will help get rid of the erroneous conventional wisdom that women need shorter skis relative to their size than men as well.

Specialized started doing this with bikes a couple years ago also. They looked at all the retul fitting data and discovered that the traditional fit principles about women's (shorter torso, longer limbs) vs men's (long torso, short limbs) geometry isn't true for the majority of people. Rather that smaller men tended to have similar fit needs to your average* woman and taller women had similar fit needs to average men.


*Average being relative to the target market... I am pretty much exactly average for my ethnicity and also a tiny dude as far as ski and bike manufacturers are concerned. Also, I'm dying to ski a pink ski.
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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I talked to the guys at Blister about this for their next decade of gear predictions - women’s lines are moving in 2 directions, some really investing in their women’s messaging (Blizzard women2women, K2 Alliance, Rossi We Rise, Elan W Studio) and others rolling their gendered lines into one (Faction made the first move last season & is followed by Fischer & DPS). There’s a ton of momentum in women’s sports across all disciplines, but the Gen Z customer also really hates gendered products unless it’s totally necessary. It's going to be interesting to see how the women's market looks over the next decade - I think we'll be seeing more of this.

For Fischer's Ranger line, I definitely think it was the right choice. The MyRangers didn't sell well, reviews weren't complimentary. I never got the sense that Fischer really understood what women skiers wanted and never dialed in on those small tweaks that women like in an all-mountain-freeride line (like the subtle differences between the Secret/M5, Santa Ana/Enforcer, Sheeva/Rustler). If a brand can't afford that depth of market research and all of the associated marketing levers to move it, the strategy of "skiers are skiers" costs nothing and gets you 90% of the way there.
The irony is interesting isn't it?
While some manufacturers who have had women's lines are investing heavily in the female messaging, and some manufacturers who didn't have a women's line in the past have invested in women's lines quite heavily, (Kästle, Liberty, Renoun, to name a few), and other brands are dropping the women specific branding all together.

I had a long conversation with Jan (male btw) at Fischer last year regarding this thread and the direction they were considering.
His reasoning was that they were strong in nordic skiing and have never had women's specific skis on the nordic side, so why have it on the alpine side?
 

Erik Timmerman

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he MyRangers didn't sell well, reviews weren't complimentary. I never got the sense that Fischer really understood what women skiers wanted and never dialed in on those small tweaks that women like in an all-mountain-freeride line (like the subtle differences between the Secret/M5, Santa Ana/Enforcer, Sheeva/Rustler). If a brand can't afford that depth of market research and all of the associated marketing levers to move it, the strategy of "skiers are skiers" costs nothing and gets you 90% of the way there.

Reviews can be so strange. Fischer had terrible reviews for their Koa 84 (this is a few years back) and then did a name change and graphic update to make it the Pro Mountain 84 (I forget the exact name), and got great reviews on it. Exact same ski. Product manager was like "????".
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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Reviews can be so strange. Fischer had terrible reviews for their Koa 84 (this is a few years back) and then did a name change and graphic update to make it the Pro Mountain 84 (I forget the exact name), and got great reviews on it. Exact same ski. Product manager was like "????".
There is that.
Quite frankly, I really liked the 102.
And only enough I liked the Koa and still liked it when it switched to Pro Mountain.

As a sidenote, because the MyRanger is going out of the lineup; the one I have in the review is up for sale.
Size 168.
 
Last edited:

cantunamunch

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Reviews can be so strange. Fischer had terrible reviews for their Koa 84 (this is a few years back) and then did a name change and graphic update to make it the Pro Mountain 84 (I forget the exact name), and got great reviews on it. Exact same ski. Product manager was like "????".

Was this the Koa with the little Zen swirl graphic? I think I remember that. I also remember thinking that the demo Pro Mountain was tuned better.

#istuningsexismathing?
#guysrespondtocuteskinamesmorethangirlsdo
 

Erik Timmerman

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This is all a good idea, but here's what I'd be worried about. First of all, where do the lighter skis go on the wall at the shop. Does the soft one go right next to the stiff one, or does it go with the "women's" skis? If it is not on the women's wall, will the women ignore it? If it is being sold as soft or stiff, will the shop actually buy both?
 

Philpug

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This is all a good idea, but here's what I'd be worried about. First of all, where do the lighter skis go on the wall at the shop. Does the soft one go right next to the stiff one, or does it go with the "women's" skis? If it is not on the women's wall, will the women ignore it? If it is being sold as soft or stiff, will the shop actually buy both?
Much depends on how retailer sets the wall is set up. Personally, I like the brands by collections, visually, I think it looks the best. Some will set the way up by waist widths seperating the men's from the women's skis. Eash shop will be different in that manner. Is one right or wrong, not really nor is one better than the other it is how the message in conveyed to the consumer.
 

Philpug

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IMHO I am not of women's skis because saying that all women are the same is just making a blank sexist statement. Not all women have a lower center of gravity. Some women do need a forward mount, others don't. We can say the same for men. Each person, male or female's needs need to be addressed individually.
 

Erik Timmerman

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IMHO I am not of women's skis because saying that all women are the same is just making a blank sexist statement. Not all women have a lower center of gravity. Some women do need a forward mount, others don't. We can say the same for men. Each person, male or female's needs need to be addressed individually.

Totally agree.
 

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