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Mendieta

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Editor's note: we are initially moving a few posts here from another thread, to keep things on topic. Please keep this discussion on-topic and friendly :)

If you like the current tune, stick with the 88, my own view is that 87 always works better and i use that on all my skis other than slaloms that are set at 86. Again, soem different schools of thought on this so keep it simple and stick with 88 if you like that.

Thank you! So, the thought for this would be to get used to the rallies at 1*/2*, and then move to 1*/3*. I would have a shop set the rallies to 1/3, and I would maintain the tune with these tools (same as my other skis and the kids'). Cheers!
 
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James

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Unless you are racing, skiing on ice or trying to carve every single turn, 2* can be just fine.
This is what happens when you move from Maine to Colorado...
The brain becomes adled by fat rockered skis that flood the shop, skiers pushing the tails around. Don't need no stinkin edges! ogsmile

You need to come back East for retraining! We're doing all three of those things. Well actually, just get over to Geib Alpine in Dillon.

Besides, the goal I hear is to carve every single turn! Including the top of the turn, on ice, any pitch, apparently.

But seriously, the Head Rally performs much better at 3 side than 2. I like bases at under 1, .75deg.
0.5 is too little for a Rally.
This is all if one skis with some decent edge angles.

Whatever you do, on any ski, there is no need for threads like "What are the factory angles for__".
It's whatever u want. Factory finish on base and edges can range from atrocious to quite nice.
 

Sibhusky

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I skied with a 1° for decades... Maybe, depends what was happening with that thirty years ago.

My skis are always stowed vertically and separated, so I don't know whereof you speak. If there's stains you can't feel, I ignore them.
 

Doug Briggs

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I check most new skis that hit the shop and apart from real race skis, they come with 1*/2*. My (love them) K2 Pinnacle 88s came 1*/1* and I left them that way. They were great except for the last day out when the groomed yielded some really slick spots at the roll overs. I'll still leave them 1/1 as I'm an optimist and want to experiment a bit with different edge angeles.

@James' insistence on a 3* side bevel has merit in the East. I am in CO and have liked 2* on everything I ski although I put a 3* on a SL ski recently. I haven't had it on conditions that merit it yet, but that may change if we don't get any snow soon.

I also agree that simpler and fewer parts the better. Start simple and add as you go/need to.
 

Started at 53

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@James
@Doug Briggs
@KingGrump

Thanks for all of your responses, it helps to learn from those that have been there and done that!!!

Are the Moonflex snores/files overkill or the way to go?

Another question, I will only ski out west, so no need to worry about eastern conditions, but that said there is ice out west sometimes. I think my skis came with a 1*/1* tune, Betsy’s might have a 1*/2* tune tho as they knew she is advanced and I am a newbie.

That being said, should I change them to a 1*/2* tune? Would I notice the difference? Or is a 2* edge too much for me at this time? I am asking as it could save me the cost of a bevel guide, but in the big scheme of things, $50 is not the end of the world.
 

Sibhusky

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I am a 1/3 semi convert even though I ski in the West. Because high traffic areas on this mountain get man-made snow blasted on them early in the season and you never know when that stuff will suddenly reappear. The Ant Hill and the two approaches to Chair One, Middle Fork ("Finger ") and Many Falls both get that hardpack reappearing. So, when I'm skiing groomers it's 1/3 and it took me longer to buy until that than it should have. I was needlessly stubborn and should have done it much sooner. My powder skis are 1/2, mostly because I have this idea that off piste there's more rocks to hit and it's stronger, but I may do that as well. Because I can't escape the Ant Hill for long.
 

Doug Briggs

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@James , good guess. I'd probably go with .5*/3* back East. I haven't forgotten my heritage. :ogcool:
 

Doug Briggs

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Tuning brings out so much dogma, I need a leash! :cool:

I'm going to bump my bevels up to 3 on my MX88s as our conditions are very New England-like.
See? I'm not dogmatic about bevels. :beercheer:
 

Doug Briggs

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I upgraded my tune on my MX88s (168cm) to a 1*/3* from 1*/2* and skied them yesterday morning. I was on everything from freshly groomed, freshly made man-made snow to scraped down old man-made (laced with pebbles in some places) to chalky styrofoam natural snow.

I repeated my previous day's adventure skiing pretty much all the same terrain and conditions. I achieved greater hold on the groomed, both fresh and scraped, with less effort but also ended up getting far above the speed limit (ski area's and mine) for the crowds and conditions. Just too much carving going on for a trail open to the public. With a 1*/2* bevel I am pretty sure my carves were less effective (slarved) and moderated my speed while still providing the big G-forces I desire on groomer zoomers. I don't mind that to grip on ice with a 1*/2* tune as I enjoy the process of building up edge angles and feeling the Gs.

On the chalky styrofoam I began chattering because the sharpness didn't allow for a comfortable range of edge angle to prevent it yet control my turns. I pretty much had to flatten the ski to the point of side-slipping to keep it from chattering as I didn't want to edge more to stop chatter as that would have significantly increased speed, even with complete turns. The terrain was LuLu's at Breck and I was skiing between two vertical rock bands with limited room left and right so speed and control were of utmost importance.

The skis were just fine with 1*/2* (on the identical conditions the day before) and the performance I desired better matched the conditions. I'll reserve these skis in their 1*/3* tune for when there are no off-piste options. I typically ski more terrain and conditions than groomed in a day and 1*/3* was definitely too sharp for the natural conditions.
 

Sibhusky

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I think you just need to use it more. I'm no prize skier and didn't notice any issues whatsoever going to a 1/3. I am still able to skid my turns. I'd think what you are experiencing is more likely due to a decreased base bevel. @Atomicman ?
 

Doug Briggs

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I think you just need to use it more. I'm no prize skier and didn't notice any issues whatsoever going to a 1/3. I am still able to skid my turns. I'd think what you are experiencing is more likely due to a decreased base bevel. @Atomicman ?

I'm just stating my POV. I put it out there to help people make their own decisions.

The base bevel at 1* is pretty forgiving. If I tried a 0.5* base bevel, the problem I experienced on natural snow would probably be exacerbated. For the way I ski 1* is quite adequate. On groomers I ski GS and SL turns with big edge angles. On steeper and natural terrain, I tend to slarve a lot.

I didn't have any issues on groomers. It was the steep natural snow that they were too sharp for. Since I ski mostly natural soft snow (whenever possible, this season is an exception) and I'm not inconvenienced by a 2* bevel on any but the hardest of snow (and then I deal with it easily), I see no need to change my bevels. YMMV
 

Atomicman

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I think you just need to use it more. I'm no prize skier and didn't notice any issues whatsoever going to a 1/3. I am still able to skid my turns. I'd think what you are experiencing is more likely due to a decreased base bevel. @Atomicman ?

Sib, I don't know quite what to say.other than I have not seen Doug ski. But what he is saying makes no sense. Sharpness and edge angles are 2 completely different. things. Highly unlikely that a properly prepared 1/3, would ever be problematic on steeps or anywhere else. This is just NOT an extreme tune!! My slaloms are .7/4 no issues. So he could have alignment issues,technique issues, hanging burrs...inaccurate bevels.....(not actually the quoted angles) or inconsistent base bevel. All my skis have a 3 degree side edge including my Pow boards, Atomic Rituals....103mm underfoot early rise tip and tail, except my slaloms at 4. Just as Scotskier's! This should tell you something when Ray and I have the same tune on all of our skis! :D
 

CalG

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I tune one ski of every set at .5 -3, and the other at .5 -2 degrees. That way, if the edge angle isn't right for the snow conditions, I can just get off that turn, and go the other way. ;-)

Actually, I don't GAF what the actual angles are so long as they are sharp and burr free. If IIRC, the OP topic is. "How to maintain edges between tunes".
So much of this thread has devolved into the actual tune, as to make it a repeat,, repeat,,, repeat. of so many "tuning threads that have come and gone before.

With that, I carry a fragment of a fine "fisherman's" stone in my pack. I sometimes run a bare palm the length of the ski edges feeling for burrs. The burrs get some attention from the stone with angles hand maintained "as best I can". This gives satisfactory remedy and improvement until the next true tune.
 
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Mendieta

Mendieta

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Actually, I don't GAF what the actual angles are so long as they are sharp and burr free. If IIRC, the OP topic is. "How to maintain edges between tunes".
So much of this thread has devolved into the actual tune, as to make it a repeat,, repeat,,, repeat. of so many "tuning threads that have come and gone before.

Yes, exactly. Also, I may be mistaken, but I believe Doug has a highly competitive racing background. He has opinions like everybody else, but he knows his stuff.
 
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Philpug

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Sib, I don't know quite what to say.other than I have not seen Doug ski. But what he is saying makes no sense. Sharpness and edge angles are 2 completely different. things. Highly unlikely that a properly prepared 1/3, would ever be problematic on steeps or anywhere else. This is just NOT an extreme tune!! My slaloms are .7/4 no issues. So he could have alignment issues,technique issues, hanging burrs...inaccurate bevels.....(not actually the quoted angles) or inconsistent base bevel. All my skis have a 3 degree side edge including my Pow boards, Atomic Rituals....103mm underfoot early rise tip and tail, except my slaloms at 4. Just as Scotskier's! This should tell you something when Ray and I have the same tune on all of our skis! :D
Doug was a member of the U.S. Ski Team, let me repeat...You Ess Skee Teeeem, all others here who can say that, please feel free to chime in ;). Doug is also a tuner at one of the best shops in Breckenridge. Again...I, along with the rest of the Colorado Crew has skied with him and all will agree that he can turn left and right with proficiency. I have skied on skis that Doug has tuned and I have been pretty happy the way they skied.
 

Doug Briggs

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Thanks @Philpug .

...

But what he is saying makes no sense. Sharpness and edge angles are 2 completely different. things.

...

So he could have alignment issues,technique issues, hanging burrs...inaccurate bevels.....(not actually the quoted angles) or inconsistent base bevel. All my skis have a 3 degree side edge including my Pow boards, Atomic Rituals....103mm underfoot early rise tip and tail, except my slaloms at 4. Just as Scotskier's! This should tell you something when Ray and I have the same tune on all of our skis! :D

I just reported my experience in as blind a test as I could create; skiing the same terrain on consecutive days with the only change being side bevel. My skis felt grippier in all conditions. What doesn't make sense? Does it have to?

How is sharpness completely different from edge angles? If by sharpness you mean the freshness of the edge and the trueness of the angle at the meeting of base and side edges, then both skis had the same sharpness as each day the tune was new, only the bevel changed. Each tune was done on a trim jet by me so accurate, thorough and sharp.

It doesn't surprise me that @Atomicman and @ScotsSkier have the same bevels. Lots of people including those that are close to or involved in racing have high bevels.

To each his own.

:daffy:
 

François Pugh

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On the east side of Canada, I like a 0.5 base 3 side tune, on race-like skis for most of my skiing, the exception being bump skiing. I noticed that my P50s were easier to smear and feather with the stock tune of 1 base 2 side, so left them there and use them as my bump skis.

I do note that carving is easier and better with sharp skis, and with a more acute angle, so I can easily see how a 1:3 would promote better carving and hence higher speeds.

On the West coast of Canada I would have a wide ski with whatever tune for snow, and some carving skis set up at 0.5:3 for days when it hasn't snowed for a week.
 
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Wilhelmson

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1/2 for all purpose skis, 1/3 for ice skis. I would go with .5/3 for the ice skis but don't have the guide so I keep it simple.

The tails of the 1/2 have been slipping on ice but something is amiss with my skiing or equipment this year.
 

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