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Rod9301

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This looks like the "blue line" from Bumps for Boomers:

Why do you like that more than the "green line" from Bumps for Boomers?
I have to say that the bump skiing in these videos looks terrible.

It's interesting that there are a lot of posts on how to carve well, but a lot of the bump videos focus on really mediocre skiing, very slow, and questionable lines.

It's true that to ski bumps you needed to be athletic and in good shape.

And have good technique.

So why is it that we have do many videos of skiing bumps without the requirement of good technique, strength and athleticism?

I get that there are camps and instructors that want a large audience and are building a business with baby boomers, most of whom are not in good shape.

And I'm a baby boomer too.

But please do not mislead people into believing that this is good movie skiing.
 

skier

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your lack of pole strap useage takes your upper body way out of alignment on every single pole plant.

Thanks for the input, Josh, Though, my upper body is exactly where I want it to be. I would like slightly quieter hands, and straps would help with that. I think you'd get a lot of support around here for any position you'd put forth, but my style is much more advanced according to a mogul coaches' criteria. When I look at your videos, there's a huge list of rookie mistakes a mogul coach would tell you to change, things they tell all beginners to change. If you're interested in an exchange we could MA each other's videos, and you could tell me how an instructor would change things, and I could tell you how a mogul coach would change your skiing.

There's a lot of style preferences, but ultimately my style is more suited for quick turns at a faster speed while your style is much more suited for achieving a particular look with a turn. I think some people, particularly those around here would be very impressed with your turn shape and give you lots of credit, where as other people would be unimpressed because you ski so slowly. My upper body is extremely stable heading straight down the fall line which is exactly where you want the upper body for faster skiing with continuously linked turns. I see your upper body going all over the place which creates huge problems for quick turns. I think you've talked yourself into the position that you'll hurt your knees if you turn faster, so that your progress in that area is stunted. And, conveniently, many instructors who also can't turn quickly are happy to back you up with that position. All this gets complicated, but I'll simplify the criteria. Look at a video and count 10 turns while measuring time. Take ten divided by the time, and you'll get turn frequency (turns/second). Then, compare different videos to see how your turn frequency compares with others. I realize that you could care less about turn frequency, but you see I care about it and have chosen a style to be conducive for higher turn frequency. Until you start attempting to create a turn frequency as high as mine or others that I admire, I don't think you'll be able to understand the physical mechanisms behind my style choices. In other words, by the time you increase your turn frequency, you'll end up looking much more like me than you look like you. You can look like whoever you want, but so can I. I take advice from people that look the way I want to look, and you're not it, which is why I haven't asked for your advice. Though, many people here do want to look like you and are very happy to take your advice, so you can take comfort in that.
 

Erik Timmerman

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maxresdefault.jpg
 

Josh Matta

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The thing is you think I care what a mogul coach cares about...I dont until comp bump skiing is objective. For you bump skiing is purely subjective because comp bump skiing is subjective. The thing is the entire point of this thread was sustainable bump skiing on real world bumps. Objectively speaking you literally admit your narrowly defined view of what bump skiing is, doesnt work on "bad" bumps. There is no such thing as bad bumps, only bad technique.
 

Chris V.

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Play nice, everyone. Less ego, please. This is a good thread, and we don't want to wreck it.
 

skier

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The thing is you think I care what a mogul coach cares about...I dont until comp bump skiing is objective. For you bump skiing is purely subjective because comp bump skiing is subjective. The thing is the entire point of this thread was sustainable bump skiing on real world bumps. Objectively speaking you literally admit your narrowly defined view of what bump skiing is, doesnt work on "bad" bumps. There is no such thing as bad bumps, only bad technique.

Blake is miles better than both of us. If he can't win that battle in a forum, then I wouldn't even begin to fight. It seems like utter and complete madness to me. I try to understand the psychology, but it's mind blowing. My wife says I'm a better skier than you, and she's hot, so that's all that matters.;)
 

Dudeabides

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I know what brings the energy level down- drills!

Here's a good one for developing both the steering and suppleness that will help you ski a smooth pleasurable line in the bumps, no matter your choice of style:

Start on an easy single fall line pitch with both skis straight down the fall line. Slowly steer your skis across the hill while trying not to let the zipper of your jacket deviate from the fall line (your basic pivot slip). Slowly increase your edge angle to an eventual edge set and pole plant- make your pole plant not by reaching for the snow with your arm, but by bringing the snow up to your pole via flexion of the ankles knees and hips. Naturally, do this in both directions.

I love this drill as it really hammers in the connection between steering and flexion/extension, and this is necessary for good bump skiing.
 

James

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A work buddy skis all over the world and told me last winter, don't go to Taos, said it was awful, so now that's two strikes against it. Plenty of other places that are awesome, like MJ, not worth wasting a trip though I do like checking out new places.
SAD!
Just get some buddies and make your own.
Also cross off Mad River.
Maybe most of Europe.

This is maybe why bump skiing is dying.
 
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Plai

Plai

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I have to say that the bump skiing in these videos looks terrible.

It's interesting that there are a lot of posts on how to carve well, but a lot of the bump videos focus on really mediocre skiing, very slow, and questionable lines.

It's true that to ski bumps you needed to be athletic and in good shape.

And have good technique.

So why is it that we have do many videos of skiing bumps without the requirement of good technique, strength and athleticism?

I get that there are camps and instructors that want a large audience and are building a business with baby boomers, most of whom are not in good shape.

And I'm a baby boomer too.

But please do not mislead people into believing that this is good movie skiing.

I'm sure you read the posts and understood that I was using the videos to clarify understanding of line choice. I'm also sure you understood I made no claims on the efficiency of the skiing.

Most of all, I'm sure you understand if you have something constructive to share, you wouldn't deride others while leading them to greener pastures.

As said above, "Play nice."
 

skier

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SAD!
Just get some buddies and make your own.
Also cross off Mad River.
Maybe most of Europe.

This is maybe why bump skiing is dying.

He loves Mad River, has property up there. We don't ski together much. He's a tele skier, not a bump skier, though I have seen him do quite well in the bumps on tele skis. He loves Europe.

I think every place has good and bad days. I was at mammoth when the entire mountain was a solid rock, though I know they can have good days too. I think he was at Taos during a bad week. Thing is though, I've been to winter park many times, and it's never once been anywhere close to the solid rock I found at mammoth. That's the difference, the number of bad days vs. the number of good days. I'm not really a condition snob, but by the time I get on a plane these days, I go where it's the best. I don't think I'll ever chart a course for Taos, but I wouldn't complain if I was there.
 

Josh Matta

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I am not a better skier than you skier, your amazing.
 
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Plai

Plai

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Thanks @SSSdave revisited your post #18 and which led to your little Dipper thread. Have to put that place in the ToDo list. So many of the KometKatz are skiing such short turns, it's difficult to catch their line choices.

Thanks for weighing in the pressure distribution (see what I did there?) in post#18. Missed it earlier. That's what my mind says to do, but my body is "defensive" and often find myself pressure balanced in the (blue line/buddy bump) turns. This led me to the green line/back of bump turns.

I think maybe @cosmoliu post #36 "AHA" moment needs to be my next one. I've got to get the tips down and edged on buddy bump turns for speed control instead of side slipping backsides.

Also revisited @Josh Matta dolphin turn video (post #30). That looks like fun. @Josh Matta How long do the skis last given that style? I get the feeling, I need a cheap source for mogul skis. [That's a different thread, OK?]

@cosmoliu @Josh Matta Was able to work on "buddy bump" and "gas pedal" today. It took a few tries, but I think the correct feelings were felt. And no, in no way was I efficient. Was just able to lumber down the chosen line and not injure myself. Baby steps.

:beercheer::yahoo:
 

cosmoliu

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I agree. That "gas pedal" move feels very clunky, and probably looks the same. I'm working on incorporating it as a more subtle move. I think that having to use it tells me that I'm coming around the bump with my weight already too far back and that it's clunky because it should be unnecessary. I'm sure that more accomplished bump skiers around here have no need for such a hack.

But like I said above, I think this thread is more about the journey than the destination.
 
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Plai

Plai

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You can ski a more direct zipper line recreationally and sustainably. Lots of recreational bump skiers and former comp bump skiers do so every day. They just need to slow down to make it sustainable. Same technique, just slower speed.

Here's a nice example with some tips:


@Plai there are many different lines you can ski through bumps. All can be skied recreationally. Learn only one if you like, but better to learn them all then pick the best line that fits the situation and your mood.
@tball Thanks for posting the video and expressing the opinion. Got a breakdown of the techniques needed to accomplish this style?!? Otherwise, this is another "do as I do, but I can't tell you how video".
 
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Plai

Paul Lai
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Here's my version of sustainable, recreational mogul skiing out with the family. It's on blue/black which is a great way to get started. Don't make fun of my pink pants. I suppose if I skied with more efficiency I wouldn't ask for a sit rest.

+1 echoing Josh's opinion that your skiing is beautiful. Sorry @Josh Matta your fallen leaf just got displaced as my dream end goal.

Another repeat, how?!?
 
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Plai

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Paul Lai
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I think the current big mystery (for me) here is the recovery. How to minimize it, or to find an optimal way to accomplish it. I have mentioned that the reverse bicycle move seems hard... I can't mentally break it down to practicable component parts to figure out how to practice in order to glue those parts together.

So, maybe another tact... Just work on for fore aft balance to improve recovery....
Probably going to try @HeluvaSkier fore aft shuffle with flappers move.

Coupled with JB's fore aft progression....

This should give me some distraction for a bit...
 

jack97

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@tball Thanks for posting the video and expressing the opinion. Got a breakdown of the techniques needed to accomplish this style?!? Otherwise, this is another "do as I do, but I can't tell you how video".

Some believe that advance mogul skiing techniques should allow one to ski in a "narrow corridor" hence follow a direct line or the fall line. At Northeast areas, we have some wide open bumps fields but the majority of them are narrow to medium width trails where at most 4-5 bumps will form across the width of the trails . Below shows a good way to get the feel of the bumps by slipping them in a direct line, 0:15 to 0:51. The slipping promotes a center stance and drifting to the desire spot of the upcoming bumps. Where speed control is done by pressuring the outside leg under the center of the feet and sometimes pressing down the heel. Although not shown in the vid, one can add absorption and extension into this and this would be a good way to introduce this into skiing in 3D terrain since this can be done at a slower pace.


The progression would be to replace the slip to more of skidded turn and "aim" for where you want to turn. Either in the troughs to up at top of the bumps, this is dependent on the conditions of the bumps or how the line is forming.

A further progression can be obtained by using the tips and the front of the skis for speed control. This is an advance tech where you can control your decent by applying more friction during the absorption by pressing the front part on the face of the bump. Reminiscent of old flame wars, below is a vid of young bumpers where some are still skidding their turns while others are using the front part of the skis to control their speed.


There are drills done in the flats that will be necessary regardless of how one wants to ski the bumps, IMO, the most important are slide slips and single leg or quasi single leg drills.

Edit, I agree with most posters that this type of skiing does require fitness. However, I'm of the opinion age is a minor factor if they kept their body in shape. I know of some grandfathers (over 50) who can run a marathon or has a chiseled upper body that would put any twenty year old to shame.
 
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Josh Matta

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Not sustainable or workable in real world bumps.
 
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