Recommended Soft Shells

[Clemson]

My kit is almost perfect, but after skiing this week I decided a more breathable shell was on my list for milder days. I have a Northface Freethinker, which I love, but after my first run I shed it because I was overheating. My Black Diamond First Light over a lightweight icebreaker base was fine because I was riding a gondola , but thought a light shell that breaks the wind, sheds light precipitation, and breathes well would be a perfect addition. .

 

[Ron]

do you need a soft-shell? A regular shell with Neoshell, Event or similar will breath better. if you are set on a softie, the arc teryx Gamma LT is going to be hard to beat.

 

[EricG]

IMHO it Sounds like you need a different mid layer instead of a different shell.

 

[Clemson]

My mid is perfect. I can not say enough great things about , and will probably just go with an an other Black Diamond offering for a lighter shell , like the storm line which I could easily stow on the way down if need be.

 

[martyg]

I second the Neoshell or eVent option. Note that eVent does not do a lot under their own brand, but does license their technology. REI is a frequent licensee. While the REI brand ID does not carry the panache of other brands, it is an incredible value.

If your u are gravitating towards a “soft shell”, insure that it is a soft shell. Three layer construction is not a soft shell at all.

 

[jmeb]

If your u are gravitating towards a “soft shell”, insure that it is a soft shell. Three layer construction is not a soft shell at all.

Soft shells can absolutely have three layers. "Soft shell" just refers to to the the fabric type of the outermost layer. You can put a soft shell outer layer onto a membrane and have a fleece interior -- it's a 3 layer softshell. Just because one puts a laminate in it doesn't change that the exterior fabric is still a soft shell.

Thing is with softshells -- is that they run a huge range. For 3-layer windproof, waterproof examples like Freeride Systems Antero II. All the way down to simple, non-laminate softshells like a Outdoor Research Ferrosi hoodie.

If OP is looking for a breathable softshell, get one without a laminate layer. Something like a Black Diamond Dawn Patrol is a burly, non-laminate softshell ideal for ski touring and nice days skiing lifts out West.

FWIW -- I own Neoshell, eVent, Gore Pro. Absolutely none of them breathe like a non-laminate softshell.

 

[Analisa]

Your Free Thinker has a Gore Pro membrane, which is one of the most breathable shell materials on the market. Black Diamond's most breathable shell, the Sharp End, is made out of the same membrane, and slightly denser (ie. less breathable) face fabric. They do carry the Dawn Patrol soft shell, but it's brushed, so while it's more breathable, in a way, it's still warmer. The Alpine Start and Cirque are lighter, but are cut & designed more for climbing (I could see the Cirque being difficult to layer under).

Whatever kind of shell you get, I highly recommend layering it over your mid-layer. Any insulation layer needs to be closer in to your body where it can capture the warm air in the insulation. Any shell you put on under it is going to keep your body heat from emanating unless it's a super minimal summer softshell like the OR Ferrosi.

I have the Arc'teryx Gamma LT and the Dynafit Mercury, and there's definitely a trade off between breathe & wind protection, and the right balance between the two is probably going to be personal. But the one way to cool down that comes without any sort of compromise is to drop a little weight out of your insulation.

 

[EricG]

My mid is perfect. I can not say enough great things about , and will probably just go with an an other Black Diamond offering for a lighter shell , like the storm line which I could easily stow on the way down if need be.

it was not perfect for the conditions as you were over heating. In my opinion your base + mid layer was too heavy if you had to pull the shell. How about a lighter mid + current base or heavier base + vest and use current shell.

 

[Josh Matta]

I am someone who runs VERY hot. I have shells/pants with Neoshell, Event, gore tex , gore pro and my favorite everyday jacket for most non wet day for years has been a Flylow Higgens. Its fabric/membrane is an inhouse flylow thing intuitive. its breathes very well, like for me almost as well as a nice tech hoodie. The biggest difference for me is that its seems really windproof and can deal with heavy snow/light rain pretty well. skiing in some place where it can truly rain I am hesitant to call it waterproof, because to me waterproof is you can be outside all day in a heavy rain and be dry, this is not that.

My only real grip with the jacket is that I wish the chin area when zippered up was slightly more roomy. I could just be a 'me' thing though.

 

[martyg]

Soft shells can absolutely have three layers. "Soft shell" just refers to to the the fabric type of the outermost layer. You can put a soft shell outer layer onto a membrane and have a fleece interior -- it's a 3 layer softshell. Just because one puts a laminate in it doesn't change that the exterior fabric is still a soft shell.

Thing is with softshells -- is that they run a huge range. For 3-layer windproof, waterproof examples like Freeride Systems Antero II. All the way down to simple, non-laminate softshells like a Outdoor Research Ferrosi hoodie.

If OP is looking for a breathable softshell, get one without a laminate layer. Something like a Black Diamond Dawn Patrol is a burly, non-laminate softshell ideal for ski touring and nice days skiing lifts out West.

FWIW -- I own Neoshell, eVent, Gore Pro. Absolutely none of them breathe like a non-laminate softshell.

As the guy who likely developed some of the gear that you have in your closet (hence "Industry Insider").... I don't agree.

Look at Sully's original application for soft shell fabric, and the genesis of the fabric. Most often, when someone laminates a membrane into a fabric that mimicks a softshell hand, it is a cheap way out.

Softshell fabrics (like Schoeller) relies on the weave of the fabric to provide that water and wind resistance. Or, you can just go purchase local fabric (as generic, non-branded fabrics are called in Asia), and laminate it to creaste wind / water repelancy. Of course, then you compromise the breathability.

Travel to the fabric mills in Asia. Go to The Canton Fair. Spend half of your year working in Asia. Tour Schoeller certified mills. Enbark on projects with fabric engineers. Spend seven figures of your own money on those fabric projects. No one at the level will agree with you. As soon as you intoroduce a membane to a fabric with a soft hand, you have created a hardshell fabric, regardlesss of the hand that the exterior fabric exhibits.

Just because the marketing material that you are digesting calls it a softshell, that doesn't make it so.

 

[jmeb]

If you define a soft shell as something with a Schoeller-esque fabric without a laminate in it—that’s fine. Fact is many brands use the term soft shell to refer to jackets with a soft face fabric—with or without a laminate.

Hence, a consumer reading product details needs to recognize many well established brands sell jackets labeled as “soft shells” with a laminate in them that reduce breath ability. So if they want one that is highly breathable they want not just a soft shell, but one without a waterproof/breathable layer.

 

[martyg]

If you define a soft shell as something with a Schoeller-esque fabric without a laminate in it—that’s fine. Fact is many brands use the term soft shell to refer to jackets with a soft face fabric—with or without a laminate.

Hence, a consumer reading product details needs to recognize many well established brands sell jackets labeled as “soft shells” with a laminate in them that reduce breath ability. So if they want one that is highly breathable they want not just a soft shell, but one without a waterproof/breathable layer.

Fact is it is more marketing position than embracing the most sought after features of the fabric. Just ask someone who has purchased the fabric in 10,000 meter lots.

Hence, my recommendation to not go with a "sftshell" with a membrane.

 

[jmeb]

Fact is, it's used in marketing copy that people read so helping people understand the different variety of softshells is key. And not everyone buying softshells wants the best features of softshells historically (namely, breathability in higher output settings.) Some want it because they like the feel of softshells vs hard. (Although the line between face fabrics is becoming increasingly blurred.) Some because softshell face fabrics are often more durable for bozos like myself to ski into trees. For inbounds skiing, a "softshell" with a membrane can be a fantastic piece of equipment in dryer climates like Colorado or Utah. One of my favorite jackets like @Josh Matta is the Flylow Higgins which is exactly that.

Buying something labeled as a "soft shell" doesn't guarantee Scholler-type levels of breathability anymore. A consumer needs to do more digging and be more informed to get what they want.

I've discussed it at length over beers with an owner and manufacturer who buys it in big rolls to sew it together in Colorado. Supplies one of the nations' largest news networks with all their technical outerwear jackets, along with many SARs and patrols across the west. His most sold piece is a three-layer "hybrid" softshell that many of this forum own and love.

All this reminds me. I wish PugSki would start a #bringbackthePivot15 campaign for PowerShield Pro based jackets like that Patagonia Knifeblade. That is an awesome, non-laminate fabric.

 

[Clemson]

This turned into a great thread, and a great example of why I love Pugski. I ended up buying a BD Dawn Patrol which was on the clearance rack at EMS. EricG had a good point, once he explained it better, my mid layer may be too warm for mild days. It is just so damn light and comfortable(made with Schoeller) I would not think to shed that first. So basically I ended up buying the same thing I am wearing as my mid without the 60g PrimaLoft , longer, and with a hood. I am planning on skiing Saturday, and will report back on how it performs. Thanks everyone for your input, ideas and opinion about "Soft shells"

 

[jt10000]

This turned into a great thread, and a great example of why I love Pugski. I ended up buying a BD Dawn Patrol which was on the clearance rack at EMS. EricG had a good point, once he explained it better, my mid layer may be too warm for mild days. It is just so damn light and comfortable(made with Schoeller) I would not think to shed that first. So basically I ended up buying the same thing I am wearing as my mid without the 60g PrimaLoft , longer, and with a hood. I am planning on skiing Saturday, and will report back on how it performs. Thanks everyone for your input, ideas and opinion about "Soft shells"

Anyone have any thoughts on the difference between that jacket and a "non-technical" softshell. I ski mainly a Columbia Ascender hooded jacket which is half the price of the Dawn Patrol (actually $50 now at some places).

 

[Ron]

what specifically are you looking to learn? Both are fine for more fair weathered skiing. I wouldn't use it on a stormy day and most soft shells aren't fully wind proof but they are very comfortable, I would go with whichever fitabetter.

 

[jt10000]

what specifically are you looking to learn? Both are fine for more fair weathered skiing. I wouldn't use it on a stormy day and most soft shells aren't fully wind proof but they are very comfortable, I would go with whichever fitabetter.

Thanks, I was wondering if the BD had any advantages.

 

[Ron]

overall, generally speaking not really. I didnt deep dive into the materials used but for almost any soft-shell, you wouldn't want to ski with it on a stormy windy day. Especially in the NE where I believe you ski. For drier conditions and days that don't have high winds, both are fine, I would make sure my base layers are good for wicking and your mid-layer is more wind resistant. honestly, comfort is important