Rear wheel drive performance car for skiing?

[Blue Streak]

They are for top down fun like this today.

 

[Josh Matta]

I mean have you done donuts in a AWD vehicle in snow? they work and rotate fine, even ones that are not RWD basis.......

I say just find an STI wagon and be done with it.

I think it would be insane to not have all four wheels being driven in ski country.

 

[Josh Matta]

how rich are you pockets man?

https://www.japaneseclassics.com/vehicle/1994-nissan-skyline-gtr/

you can make a skyline GTR entirely RWD until you want AWD, even in AWD mode its RWD 100 percent until is slips.

if you can find an importer and are patient the Stagea 260R is skyline wagon. This one sold for 4400 dollar in japan.


Normally the front ends look less cool, but the one in the video had the GTR front clip put on. You can actually legally get the R34 stagea hear because the first year was 1994 for the stagea the 260Rs has GTR running gear and is basically identical beside the wagon body. The ones newer than 94 are actually cheaper because they are not legal in this country, with that said if you can get it into canada and then drive here you should be golden. Its exactly how I imported my 1994 Civic Si-R right hand drive(160hp Civic with leather seats and automatic climate control and acceleromater based GPS if you lived in Toyko) in 2004............literally the most illegal thing I have ever done, but since the victim is the state I was ok with it.

 

[x10003q]

I should add when talking about my own decision process that I've got a 4x4 with studded Hakkas for the worst conditions. I'd use an RWD performance car with non-studded winter tires for maybe 90% of my ski trips where conditions are not extreme, and I don't need the space of the larger vehicle.

Don't get me wrong. My 4x4 Tundra has been a fantastic ski vehicle for almost 20 years. It's allowed me confidently drive into countless storms when the authorities recommend staying off the roads.

Looking back, I have to say I'm kind of regretting many of those ski miles in the 4x4 vs. driving something more fun. I drive fun mountain roads for skiing all the time, mostly in the dry, and I've been doing it in a truck. Looking forward, I'm thinking I want to have a bit more fun driving to and from skiing.

All the "fun " mountain roads here in the East are full of pot holes, frost heaves, sand and stones on the sides and wacky plow work. They are also dark by 4:30pm or earlier in the valleys and can often be found with black ice. There are no "fun" drives during the winter when you go skiing.

 

[Ogg]

All the "fun " mountain roads here in the East are full of pot holes, frost heaves, sand and stones on the sides and wacky plow work. They are also dark by 4:30pm or earlier in the valleys and can often be found with black ice. There are no "fun" drives during the winter when you go skiing.

I think a car set up for winter rally racing is pretty much ideal for New England winter roads.

 

[sparty]

All the "fun " mountain roads here in the East are full of pot holes, frost heaves, sand and stones on the sides and wacky plow work. They are also dark by 4:30pm or earlier in the valleys and can often be found with black ice. There are no "fun" drives during the winter when you go skiing.

But then there's spring (and, out west, summer) skiing, and rear-wheel drive can be a lot of fun, especially if you have enough suspension travel for the potholes and frost heaves.

 

[tball]

Thanks for all the thoughts!

Nice Boxter @Blue Streak! That looks like an ideal day for a fun-to-drive RWD ski car instead of an SUV or truck. Just wondering where you put your skis?

@Josh Matta, no, I haven't done donuts in the snow in an AWD. I'm more wanting the fun of RWD on the dry roads the vehicle will see 99% of the time. As much as I'd love a GTR, too expensive for me. Also too nice for a ski car that is going to get destroyed in so many ways.

A fast Suburu is an obvious choice, but I don't trust those turbos. I've known too many that have gone bad. (I also instinctively dismiss all the fantastic Europian sporty cars as unreliable, rightly or wrongly.)

I could see driving a cheap, underpowered 5-speed Impreza or 6-speed Crosstrek. Either would be more fun than my truck on all but the worst days. And, a Suburu and Toyota 4x4 quiver would make a solid statement if I needed some Colorado cred. I'm a CO native, so covered there.

If going Suburu, why not spend a few more bucks on an RWD BRZ or 86? Add some studded Hakkas and seriously dial up the snow fun. If I didn't have adult and parental requirements for this vehicle, the BRZ would be a serious option. It's not the fastest, but I love the idea of the direct and port injection boxer engine, and the fuel economy is impressive for a car that makes that much fun and has a six-speed. With the right tires, I think it could be a fantastic econo/sports ski car for transporting one or two people skiing.

@x10003q we've got crappy roads here too. We see more sun, though, so we enjoy clear roads on many days.

For the rough roads, I've argued in favor of 4x4 over AWD thinking the cost of suspension repairs on a car-based SUV makes up for the extra gas you'll pay for in a true 4x4. I still believe that.

But as someone who enjoys driving, I'm now also thinking life's too short to be driving all those ski miles in a truck when the roads often allow driving a fun car.

 

[François Pugh]

When it comes to driving through storms, I have done it in RWD, FWD, 4X4 and AWD. No matter what I' driving, I am much more worried about white-outs than getting stuck or sliding off the road.

 

[Wilhelmson]

All this talk about "ski cars" is kind of silly. Most skiers would be better off just stuffing all their gear in a minivan. I've been driving for skiing and for work all over Upstate NY and Vermont for 50 years, and ski areas are the easiest places to drive to in the winter. I've never been to a ski area before the access road and parking lots were plowed, and that includes 20 years of riding the first chair as a race coach. Usually the hardest part of the trip is getting out of the parking lot at my condo.

The fact that some people find that they don't need real winter tires proves that driving to a ski area doesn't require anything special.

dm

This is true in most parts of the northeast where the plowing is better in ski country than it is in the urban area. But there are some days when unless you want to drive 40 mph for 200 miles awd and/or snow tires make it so much easier. Sounds like some of the mountain passes out west require something special if you want to stay safe.

 

[bbinder]

One of the HPDE instructors in our region says that he learned an awful lot about car control driving his 911 in the snow during the 1980s. He claims that he mastered the art of driving sideways on US 1 during a blizzard when there no other cars on the road.

 

[Dave Marshak]

One of the HPDE instructors in our region says that he learned an awful lot about car control driving his 911 in the snow during the 1980s. He claims that he mastered the art of driving sideways on US 1 during a blizzard when there no other cars on the road.

Back in the early 70's I did a week in Jay Peak. One guy on that trip brought his 911 from West Virginia. The first day he told me it was the perfect winter car, because rear engine and radial tires you don't need snow tires.

He never got up to the mountain ahead of my Dodge.

dm

 

[Dave Marshak]

This is true in most parts of the northeast where the plowing is better in ski country than it is in the urban area. But there are some days when unless you want to drive 40 mph for 200 miles awd and/or snow tires make it so much easier. Sounds like some of the mountain passes out west require something special if you want to stay safe.

AWD doesn't make much difference on the highway. Winter tires are all you really need once you get the car rolling. Ground clearance doesn't matter at all, until it does, then it's almost the only thing that matters.

My typical trip is 50 miles on the interstate, another 25 on state highways. Snow tires are for powder days only.

dm

 

[Dave Marshak]

One of the HPDE instructors in our region says that he learned an awful lot about car control driving his 911 in the snow during the 1980s. He claims that he mastered the art of driving sideways on US 1 during a blizzard when there no other cars on the road.

Driving in the snow was a great way to learn vehicle dynamics at relatively safe speeds, but with all the electronic nannies on new cars, I don't think that kind of learning is possible anymore.

dm

 

[Wilhelmson]

AWD doesn't make much difference on the highway.

Edited to be more constructive: From my experience it does make a difference because it gives you more control. People love to write articles about how awd won't help you stop faster, but if you're in more control in the first place your're better off. Having power go to four wheels, coupled with traction control, is better but not a replacement for snow tires, which aren't a replacement for studs, etc.

 

[Blue Streak]

One of the HPDE instructors in our region says that he learned an awful lot about car control driving his 911 in the snow during the 1980s. He claims that he mastered the art of driving sideways on US 1 during a blizzard when there no other cars on the road.

Come on out for this.

 

[SSSdave]

I've skied Kirkwood more than any other resorts that requires driving State Route 88 over Carson Pass from the east or Carson Spur from the west. During winter ski season, SR88 probably has the highest percentage of drivers with AWD/4WD of any Sierra highways. Carson Spur starts about a half mile west of the Kirkwood junction while Carson Pass is about 5 miles east.

State Route 88 during mid winter has more average miles of snowy highway above 6000 feet (average central Sierra snow level) than any other all year highway in California. First video below is a short 1:03 minute CALTRANS video. The second video just 22 seconds from Feb 21, 2011 was when Carson Spur was minimally plowed to allow a few cars to escape.. Third video is 1:43 minutes drives by all the huge snowbanks at Carson Spur.

 

[slowrider]

Someone is having too much fun.

 

[sparty]

Come on out for this.

If his profile is accurate, http://sccv.org/wp/sccv-ice-time-trial-itt-guide/ is a bit closer.

Edited to be more constructive: From my experience it does make a difference because it gives you more control. People love to write articles about how awd won't help you stop faster, but if you're in more control in the first place your're better off. Having power go to four wheels, coupled with traction control, is better but not a replacement for snow tires, which aren't a replacement for studs, etc.

Anyone who claims that AWD isn't beneficial on the highway hasn't found a slick patch in a RWD vehicle (or a traditional 4WD that makes you choose between locked-in 4WD or RWD). Not that I'm going to change my vehicle choice because of it, but a full-size pickup, van, or SUV on I-90 can be a bit terrifying as you approach each little rise in the road towards Bozeman, not knowing if that's going to be the one where you crest it and find wall-to-wall frozen surfaces. Of course, given that it's Montana, you can't just drive like each rise could have frozen surface behind it, or you'd need to leave a day early (and you'll probably get squished by an 18-wheeler doing the speed limit).

 

[tball]

I should fess up that my first car was a '79 RX-7. RWD, featherweight, and perfectly balanced. I had a blast driving that car, hitting the redline buzzer nearly every shift. A bit underpowered even with Racing Beat headers, but so much fun to drive.

My enthusiasm for cars came about a year before my love of skiing, or I probably would have never bought the RX-7. Thanks to studded snow tires I was able to enjoy both while I drove my RX-7 my final five years of undergrad.

I mostly skied Mary Jane, driving HW93, Clear Creek Canyon, and Berthoud Pass countless times in my RX-7. I'd drive in all conditions and regularly skip class and chase powder days in that car. I knew every corner and passing spot along on the route and had a blast getting that car sideways at every opportunity. I'd also go up on high-pressure clear days as much for the fun of the drive as the rock hard bumps.

Beyond all the front range areas, I also took mid-winter trips in my RX-7 to Aspen, Telluride, Monarch, Crested Butte, Wolf Creek, Taos. I even chased my first Utah storm in that car where I wasn't allowed up LCC even with my studs technically meeting the requirement. The officer didn't like the car being so low and RWD for the ~60 inches in prior 48 hours. I blame him for never getting an FD RX-7 in spite of my love of rotary engines at the time.

I ended up with an FWD Integra GS as my next car. That car also got me through every storm, even easier with FWD. It's also where I got hooked on funny-sounding Nordic studded snow tires. The Gislavid Nordfrosts I ran on my Integra were the entry-level drug to the Nokian Hakkapeleitas I happily spent north of 1.5 G's on today. Tires matter!

I think a BRZ/86 or Miata would probably be the closest modern car to my old RX-7. I've found reports of easily fitting 184's inside the BRZ. I'm assuming there's no practical way to carry skis in or on a Miata?

 

[Tom K.]

IMO, the last BMW 535 wagons with six speed stick and AWD were the best ski car ever, for a car enthusiast.

RWD bias, great power, decent shifter, and just big enough.

Sadly, it's hard to find a decent one anymore (and they are not cheap to maintain).