Rear wheel drive performance car for skiing?

[crgildart]

There's rear wheel drive, there's rear with limited slip, and there's rear that's full posi. I don't recommend the latter over the other two for snow and icy conditions. Had the same model car with options one and three over the years. Full posi was way sketchier in winter conditions.. I did manage but hands down the hardest to handle.

 

[Blue Streak]

Just over 2,600 Liquid Tire Chain systems made it onto the road across the 1969 Chevrolet lineup.
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2017/11/08/liquid-tire-chain

Wish I still had my 69 Chevelle.

 

[scott43]

Wish I still had my 69 Chevelle.

I keep looking for a 4 gear machine.. One day..

 

[slowrider]

 

[tball]

I don 't think you could really do this with RWD

That AWD snow racing looks like a ton of fun!

I have no doubt AWD is more fun in the snow. It's always fun to put the power down if you have it. Spinning all four wheels is a blast.

I think RWD is more fun on dry pavement, though. What fun is driving if you can't spin the wheels, like in an AWD?

AWD might be a little FASTER in some dry circumstances, but not as FUN. I think AWD vs RWD is probably much like automatic vs manual. Three pedals and RWD likely win the fun race on dry pavement.

So, what's more fun for a skier, AWD or RWD?

While the AWD is more fun in the snow, even us skiers only drive a tiny fraction of the time on snow. The huge majority of the car's miles will be on dry pavement.

If optimizing for overall fun wouldn't RWD be the way to go since it's more fun on dry roads?

That assumes the RWD will get you to and from skiing just fine with good snow tires, which I believe. If you have a steep driveway or the like to navigate then AWD is the way to go. You also have to be more careful with RWD in parking lots and side streets, but I think most can manage fine.

At least that's my current thinking. Where am I off base?

 

[John O]

I haven't spent much time in the PNW, but IIRC the drive from Seattle to Chrystal was low altitude and mostly flat with a steep plowed hill the last few miles. Stlil, videos sliding down Seattle streets like pinballs are always more entertaining.

For your 2 feet of wet you're gonna need 4WD with a lift kit, but who really drives in that?

dm

I'd say that the 2 feet of wet snow comment was something of an exaggeration, WSDOT does a great job of plowing the roads here in my opinion. However there's no question that the worst part of the drive to go skiing around here is usually the parking lot. I have been to Stevens Pass before when they plowed the lot just once, too early, and it kept snowing hard. By the time people arrived, the parking lot was dicey. I saw two AWD vehicles get stuck in the lot, and the guys working the lot said "just leave it there, we'll pull you out at the end of the day". I'm guessing they had all season tires, probably low on tread. I had a good set of snows on my Outback and I was fine that day.

I don't doubt that RWD + snows could get you to the ski area, but I'd worry about that parking lot.

 

[François Pugh]

The thing I like most about RWD is the ability to lift your foot off the throttle to transfer some weight to the front without braking the front wheels. Yes, there is less weight transfer on ice than on pavement, but sometimes a little is all you need to stop that nasty understeer. In fact a little can be too much, you may over do it if you're not careful. Trailing throttle oversteer is a wonderful thing.

Some AWD cars are very well balanced. I remember years ago taking a Mitsubishi (I can't remember if it was Eclipse or Eagle Talon, I'm leaning toward Eclipse) for a test drive during a snow storm. The thing drifted very much like a RWD car with the power on, as far as I could tell in the short test drive.

 

[slowrider]

I'd say that the 2 feet of wet snow comment was something of an exaggeration, WSDOT does a great job of plowing the roads here in my opinion. However there's no question that the worst part of the drive to go skiing around here is usually the parking lot. I have been to Stevens Pass before when they plowed the lot just once, too early, and it kept snowing hard. By the time people arrived, the parking lot was dicey. I saw two AWD vehicles get stuck in the lot, and the guys working the lot said "just leave it there, we'll pull you out at the end of the day". I'm guessing they had all season tires, probably low on tread. I had a good set of snows on my Outback and I was fine that day.

I don't doubt that RWD + snows could get you to the ski area, but I'd worry about that parking lot.

You must live in town.

 

[Tom K.]

That AWD snow racing looks like a ton of fun!

I have no doubt AWD is more fun in the snow. It's always fun to put the power down if you have it. Spinning all four wheels is a blast.

I think RWD is more fun on dry pavement, though. What fun is driving if you can't spin the wheels, like in an AWD?

AWD might be a little FASTER in some dry circumstances, but not as FUN. I think AWD vs RWD is probably much like automatic vs manual. Three pedals and RWD likely win the fun race on dry pavement.

So, what's more fun for a skier, AWD or RWD?

While the AWD is more fun in the snow, even us skiers only drive a tiny fraction of the time on snow. The huge majority of the car's miles will be on dry pavement.

If optimizing for overall fun wouldn't RWD be the way to go since it's more fun on dry roads?

That assumes the RWD will get you to and from skiing just fine with good snow tires, which I believe. If you have a steep driveway or the like to navigate then AWD is the way to go. You also have to be more careful with RWD in parking lots and side streets, but I think most can manage fine.

At least that's my current thinking. Where am I off base?

I'd say nowhere.

Regarding your comment about only needing AWD a fraction of the time, as a skier in the PNW who also has a ridiculously steep driveway, I've always thought a VERY simple, user-switchable, 20 HP electric drive to the front wheels would be all I need. I would KILL for this in our Sprinter.

 

[SSSdave]

Obviously there are 2WD setups that can negotiate snowy mountain roads well, especially where road gradients remain low.

Here in California, AWD/4WD dominate skier vehicles for the simple reason, snow chain regulations on all our Sierra Nevada highways during snowy icy conditions is mandatory and enforced unless one has AWD/4WD with 4 M&S rated tires. The highways from our coastal and Central Valley urban areas have long miles of turny mountain roads often after huge dumps of snow. In fact fresh snow draws legions of powder hounds up in all but worst storm conditions.

I've been in 3 Subaru AWD vehicles since 1986 and that has made a huge difference in how safe the experience is. I'll never buy anything but AWD again mainly as I value my life though admittedly have never been a car enthusiast out for fun driving. My 07 Forester is ugly scratched and dirty though very functional. The last thing a hard core powder ski wants to do is spend a half hour along those highways chaining up while hundreds of other cars pass them by getting to resorts sooner and then tracking up slopes. Of course being outside in 20F temps in a blowing snowstorm trying to put chains on and later off is always a miserable grubby experience.

Additionally although the law states a 25 mph speed limit under chain requirements, reality is even the CHP vehicles (always AWD/4WD SUVs in mountains) drive faster than that as long as roads have sparse traffic, nor do they usually bother those with same that do zip along faster. With chains on, one cannot drive faster without problems and as snow melts on highways there are often long stretches of bare pavement areas in with a mix of shaded icy snowy stretches. Worse is trying to negotiate snowy mountain community streets after dumps of fresh snow since plowing takes hours and some storms last for days. Additionally many residential streets are built in hilly areas where inclines are steep.

Even with AWD/4WD we have to carry chains though big highways almost always close if conditions reach such R3 rated conditions. I also carry a heavy duty tow cable and two 4 foot long 1x8 boards to help extracting myself from getting stuck. Overall the main thing that prevents this person that lives 4 to 5 hours of driving from skiing a lot more is the long boring drive that also has a significant gasoline cost.

 

[dbostedo]

I'm interested in folks' experiences with and without LSD.

Well with LSD, I was driving on a rainbow, with a unicorn in the front seat, and 50 ft long winged lizards were guiding me through the turns. Without LSD I was just, you know, driving in the snow.

 

[Seldomski]

All I know is that AWD helps you get stuck in places where it's really difficult to tow you out. RWD usually stops you long before then.

 

[sparty]

All I know is that AWD helps you get stuck in places where it's really difficult to tow you out. RWD usually stops you long before then.

Yeah, but AWD with chains can beat that handily.

 

[Ogg]

All I know is that AWD helps you get stuck in places where it's really difficult to tow you out. RWD usually stops you long before then.

I've never been stuck in an AWD or 4WD vehicle unless I was caught on my frame. Even then I've only had to dig out once or twice the rest of the time I was able to get it moving under it's own power with a little finesse.

 

[Tom K.]

All I know is that AWD helps you get stuck in places where it's really difficult to tow you out. RWD usually stops you long before then.

Reminds me of a few youthful summers on a highway department survey crew. Switching to 4WD was allowed only to get out of somewhere 2WD got you into. Big sticker on the dashboard and everything.

But this is nuts WRT skiing. There have been so many times in the last 35 years in the PNW that I couldn't have left the parking lot without chains or AWD.

I was fine with chains until about age 45. One day, after laying in wet snow to chain up in the near-dark, I got back into the van, looked at my wife, and said "the next one is AWD".

 

[mdf]

I was nearly stuck in a ridiculous Suburban last year, pulling into a space in the parking lot at Big Sky.
I had to rock it out , which was nerve wracking with the tight clearance to the surrounding vehicles.

 

[Josh Matta]

only 2 acceptable RWD cars in snow.

 

[tball]

But this is nuts WRT skiing. There have been so many times in the last 35 years in the PNW that I couldn't have left the parking lot without chains or AWD.

I was fine with chains until about age 45. One day, after laying in wet snow to chain up in the near-dark, I got back into the van, looked at my wife, and said "the next one is AWD".

Yes, RWD is a little nuts WRT skiing. Only for enthusiasts, for sure. Others will rightfully roll their eyes.

Even for enthusiasts, there are so many fantastic RWD biased AWD systems available it's a bit crazy for a skier to go with RWD. The car I'm considering (AWD G37) is heavily RWD biased, so it's only launching and under wheel slip that the drivetrain behaves differently:

• From 0 to 10 mph, its electromagnetic wet clutch splits the torque 25 percent front/75 percent rear for good grip off the line; thereafter, the car is 100-percent rear drive until rear-wheel slip is sensed. Then, the diff can send as much as 50 percent of the power forward.

A drivetrain like that seems perfect for an auto enthusiast skier. But there's a downside. The car weighs 150-200 lbs more and gets 2 mpg worse gas mileage than the same RWD car.

Most importantly, the AWD version not going to spin donuts in a parking lot or drift around your favorite local corner in the snow as nicely as with pure RWD. For most grown adults driving like that is nuts, but for those on the automotive fringe, I think the tradeoffs are probably well worth it to drive RWD.

 

[tball]

I should add when talking about my own decision process that I've got a 4x4 with studded Hakkas for the worst conditions. I'd use an RWD performance car with non-studded winter tires for maybe 90% of my ski trips where conditions are not extreme, and I don't need the space of the larger vehicle.

Don't get me wrong. My 4x4 Tundra has been a fantastic ski vehicle for almost 20 years. It's allowed me confidently drive into countless storms when the authorities recommend staying off the roads.

Looking back, I have to say I'm kind of regretting many of those ski miles in the 4x4 vs. driving something more fun. I drive fun mountain roads for skiing all the time, mostly in the dry, and I've been doing it in a truck. Looking forward, I'm thinking I want to have a bit more fun driving to and from skiing.

 

[DanoT]

My '06 Volvo XC70 AWD was fine in snow most of the time. However, last January rain/snow/rain/snow turned my 600' up hill driveway into a sheet of ice. Even after sanding it took puting cable chains on the Volvo to get out. The XC70 normally has a 90/10 front to rear bias but can decide to go to 60/40 or something like that when it wants to but not when I want. And in the spring when the driveway turned into the consistency of porridge, my landlord towed the Volvo out with his D4 Cat dozer.

Anyway, when Toyota went to 1.99% financing last June the Volvo got traded in for TRD Off Road Tacoma 4x4 with 6 speed manual transmission, high and low range, rear axle 4:30 gearing and locker, front axle Atrac which uses wheel sensors and individual wheel ABS braking to act like a front locker.

So my driveway, do whatever the hell you want because you are not stopping me or even slowing me down this winter, regardless of conditions.