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Rear wheel drive performance car for skiing?

crgildart

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RWD is easy to drive in the snow as long as you have the right tires and enough ground clearance. The hardest thing with RWD is getting them out of the parking space if the city plows you in on the street.

dm
It also helps to have a bed or trunk full of sand bags to get some weight over the power wheels.
 

Dave Marshak

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I saw a corvette with snow tires get stuck on flat ice covered pavement last winter. RWD and snow do not go together ever imo.
Big power and a heavy right foot and snow do not go together.

"Get yourself decent set of snow tires and have a blast. There's no reason to deny yourself."


dm
 
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Dave Marshak

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The first year I lived in Albany, back when a RWD Impala with studded retreads on the rear wheels only was the best winter car, I was waiting for the light on Hudson and Lark. The light turned, red, then green, red,green, red, green, nobody moved. So I get out of my car and walk up the little hill and there's a guy there spinning his wheels but he can't move, until another guy and I push him through. Then the guy behind him drives to the exact same spot where the first guy got stuck and stops. So we wait there and push him through. Then the guy who was helping me push got back in his car, goes to the exact spot where he just saw two other guys get stuck and he stops. So two of us push him through and as soon as I get back in my car, the guy behind me blows his horn because apparently he wants me to move up to the exact same spot where he just saw three cars get stuck!

The point is that people are idiots and even in Upstate NY, no one knows the first thing about driving in the snow. You shouldn't even think about it, you should just do what I tell you.

dm
 

TexasStout

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All this talk about "ski cars" is kind of silly. Most skiers would be better off just stuffing all their gear in a minivan. I've been driving for skiing and for work all over Upstate NY and Vermont for 50 years, and ski areas are the easiest places to drive to in the winter. I've never been to a ski area before the access road and parking lots were plowed, and that includes 20 years of riding the first chair as a race coach. Usually the hardest part of the trip is getting out of the parking lot at my condo.

The fact that some people find that they don't need real winter tires proves that driving to a ski area doesn't require anything special.

dm
Maybe in NY and Vermont do the ski areas keep the parking lots plowed. Some of the slipperiest places I've come across on ski trips, where I was concerned about traction, were the parking lots at Loveland and Winter Park. At least the snow cover wasn't deep. I usually have been in rental cars with All Season tires. They were AWD vehicles, at least, or I would have been in trouble.
 

slowrider

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There's a time to mash the gas and there are places to let her drift. We have an old rule in professional driving. You can go off a hill a million times to slow. But only once too fast.
 
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tball

tball

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I saw a corvette with snow tires get stuck on flat ice covered pavement last winter. RWD and snow do not go together ever imo.
I appreciate all the opinions and discussion, just very much disagree with this one.

I'll just point out that the Colorado State Patrol got by just fine with RWD until very recently. Also, see the Corvette video above.

Do you value the security of AWD or the fun of RWD more (in all the various conditions the car will see) is what I think is the key question. It's also cheaper to drive 2WD than 4WD, and environmentally friendly. Things different people value quite differently.
 

x10003q

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I appreciate all the opinions and discussion, just very much disagree with this one.

I'll just point out that the Colorado State Patrol got by just fine with RWD until very recently. Also, see the Corvette video above.

Do you value the security of AWD or the fun of RWD more (in all the various conditions the car will see) is what I think is the key question. It's also cheaper to drive 2WD than 4WD, and environmentally friendly. Things different people value quite differently.

Audi AWD Quattros where banned from various racing series in the 1980s/1990s because they were faster with less horsepower than the RWD competitors. If you cannot figure out how to have fun in an AWD you are not doing it right.

 
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Why would you do that? DWS06 don't cut it in the snow. Why not change out for real winter tires?

dm
Because when I go skiing, I drive the Outback 3.6R with Hakkapellitas.
The Continentals are essentially a high-performance all season tire for the Porsche, and all I care about is the ability to comply with Colorado tread laws, to be able to drive it on I 70 between September and May. For instance this weekend, I will drive it up to Vail, which I could not do without M + S rated tires.
To drive the Michelin PS4S tires anywhere near freezing would compromise the tires for high-performance use on the track.
 

Ken_R

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Yeah, no drifting on I-70, please.

I was thinking more like Berthoud and Loveland passes. The hairpins can be a blast in an RWD car that likes to drift. I did a lot of that in my youth. I'm not sure at this point in my life I'll be turning off stability control on those passes in the snow. It would have to be a very special well-balanced car in just the right circumstances with damn good winter tires.

So, forget the drifting. I'm thinking of more performance driving on fun roads. Clear Creek Canyon, the passes, even I-70 is a lot more fun to drive in a performance car than a 4x4 or AWD SUV.

Should that performance car be RWD or AWD is what I'm pondering. Thanks, everyone for all the great thoughts!

Ok, RWD and Turbo. It must have a turbocharged engine so it doesnt loose a ton of power at high altitudes.

Choices:

Cheap: Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ / Mazda Miata... aftermarket turbo maybe?

Fun but more $$$: Porsche 718 (Cayman or Boxster)

Suicidal: Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, Dodge Challenger...
 
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JimL

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I remember several years ago going up a moderate slope in snowy weather without muss or fuss in my Audi Quattro with all season tires, while all around me several RWD cars were fishtailing and sliding - hard to say how much was tires and how much was lack of driving experience in snow, and it was only a few inches on the ground. One of my colleagues with a RWD car, who lived at the bottom of a small hill, was unable to negotiate it to come to work after a few inches of snow fell.

I have owned RWD cars in the past in Minnesota and the Northeast, and there is no question in my mind that AWD is better. The only downside to AWD is people who own them can become TOO confident and forget that while AWD is better for going without sliding, it does NOTHING for STOPPING on slippery surfaces compared to RWD. AWD cannot overcome momentum and the laws of physics.
 

cantunamunch

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Ok, RWD and Turbo. It must have a turbocharged engine so it doesnt loose a ton of power at high altitudes.

Choices:

Cheap: Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ / Mazda Miata... aftermarket turbo maybe?

Fun but more $$$: Porsche 718 (Cayman or Boxster)

Suicidal: Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, Dodge Challenger...

Stinger GT RWD
 

Bruuuce

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I’m also in the camp that will take a RWD with snows over an AWD with average tires any day.

I drove a 2005 5-speed BMW 330i for 9 years through snow and ice and it still rates as my favorite winter car. Great traction control that, with a good set of Blizzaks or Hakkas, made it a joy in the winter. If it hadn’t gotten crunched by a water truck I’d still be driving it.
 

Ogg

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I’m also in the camp that will take a RWD with snows over an AWD with average tires any day.

I drove a 2005 5-speed BMW 330i for 9 years through snow and ice and it still rates as my favorite winter car. Great traction control that, with a good set of Blizzaks or Hakkas, made it a joy in the winter. If it hadn’t gotten crunched by a water truck I’d still be driving it.
For winter weather driving tires are everything but AWD is still better. With the same tires AWD will beat RWD very time, IME. That said I would still rather have a RWD than FWD in any conditions.
 

mdf

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Old heavy cars did pretty well in the snow. My first car was a RWD 1969 Buick Impala with lousy (retread!) tires. It did great in the snow. It was heavy enough that it would dig down and find the pavement. I remember driving cross-country in it during a blizzard and spending most of the trip in the unplowed left lane, passing everything. I replaced it with an AWD Subaru that was probably half its weight -- it was a shock having it squirm and slither on a couple of inches of snow.
 

slowrider

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Old heavy cars did pretty well in the snow. My first car was a RWD 1969 Buick Impala with lousy (retread!) tires. It did great in the snow. It was heavy enough that it would dig down and find the pavement. I remember driving cross-country in it during a blizzard and spending most of the trip in the unplowed left lane, passing everything. I replaced it with an AWD Subaru that was probably half its weight -- it was a shock having it squirm and slither on a couple of inches of snow.
Buick Impala?
 

mdf

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Buick Impala?
Oops! Chevy Impala. It was a long time ago.

Strange performance car -- it had a fairly big engine (not the 409) and a 4 barrel carbouretor. It wasn't very quick to accelerate off the line, but accelerated incredibly fast from 60 to 90 mph -- press you back in the seat the whole time.
I drove it 120 mph across almost the entire state of Utah on questionable tires -- youthful stupidity. Utah still takes a long time to cross, even at that speed.
 

François Pugh

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Old heavy cars did pretty well in the snow. My first car was a RWD 1969 Buick Impala with lousy (retread!) tires. It did great in the snow. It was heavy enough that it would dig down and find the pavement. I remember driving cross-country in it during a blizzard and spending most of the trip in the unplowed left lane, passing everything. I replaced it with an AWD Subaru that was probably half its weight -- it was a shock having it squirm and slither on a couple of inches of snow.
That's the key, weight. I passed many stuck front wheel drive cars (many of them with snow tires too) in my old 4300 lb wagons, plowing through a foot or more of snow with the bumpers. Scary going down a steep hill with a turn at the bottom though.
 

slowrider

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Weight can have some disadvantages. Some are obvious others are after the fact. Park on a snowpacked flat ground area in a class 8 truck and your probably stuck. The snow melts under the tires into ice. Solution is roll a runway before parking and don't set the trailer brakes. Happy motoring.
 

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