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Re-seeking advice for my bump skiing

Thread Starter
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jzmtl

jzmtl

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Thanks everybody for your help. ogsmile

A rounder slower line is actually what I'm hoping to do eventually, but it hasn't clicked yet. At the moment I find zipperline approach easier as far as line selection goes, I think what I need to do is find somebody who is good at round turns and follow the same path, so I can focus on techniques and not worry about line selection initially.
 

Rod9301

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Actually, Absorbing more is actionable, just let the bumps push your knees up, a lot more than you think you need.
 

Mendieta

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Thanks everybody for your help. ogsmile

A rounder slower line is actually what I'm hoping to do eventually, but it hasn't clicked yet. At the moment I find zipperline approach easier as far as line selection goes, I think what I need to do is find somebody who is good at round turns and follow the same path, so I can focus on techniques and not worry about line selection initially.

Perhaps a good instructor could help with that.

Here is an idea for round turns practice: try to find soft bumps. They happen a lot here in Tahoe, sometimes in groomed runs towards the end of the day. Those are very forgiving (and about as much as I can handle right now), and lend themselves to round turns. Just 2cts worth ...

I really like your skiing, btw, and like others said, you are well ahead of me (which doesn't matter, but I feel I should point out to put things in perspective).
 

Crank

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Thanks everybody for your help. ogsmile

A rounder slower line is actually what I'm hoping to do eventually, but it hasn't clicked yet. At the moment I find zipperline approach easier as far as line selection goes, I think what I need to do is find somebody who is good at round turns and follow the same path, so I can focus on techniques and not worry about line selection initially.

Following better skiers is how I learned to ski bumps. Probably faster to hire a good instructor, but cheaper to follow and imitate.
 

Mendieta

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Following better skiers is how I learned to ski bumps. Probably faster to hire a good instructor, but cheaper to follow and imitate.

Or you can do both. I always follow an instructor or good skier if I find the chance, especially when they are drilling for their own, but I also spend some $ in instruction now and then, because you also get the feedback, and a ton of good stuff out of a lesson. Cost is an issue, no question about it. I try to make best use of instruction money by spacing lessons so I can work in between.
 

Nancy Hummel

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I see a couple of things:

1. Incomplete edge release which causes you to have to pick up the old outside/new inside ski. (Edge release may be hindered by being back).
2. Late pole plants which seem to hinder your upper body moving down the hill with your skis.

I would suggest slowing things way down. Start with one bump at a time and focus on being centered, pole plant, edge release and work your way up to several bumps at a time. Ski the same run many times so you don't have to focus so much on the line.
 
Thread Starter
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jzmtl

jzmtl

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Following better skiers is how I learned to ski bumps. Probably faster to hire a good instructor, but cheaper to follow and imitate.

It definitely would, but $150 ($255 high season) an hour that Tremblant charges is beyond my budget.

A couple of ski buddies has been trying to talk me into going the CSIA route (they have), I've been resisting but maybe I should give it some consideration. :huh:
 

T-Square

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Becoming a ski instructor has many benefits. You get good clinics and learn a lot if you are open to it. Besides you get a chance to hook others on your addiction... errr hobby.
 

Jilly

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We can work on this together next season. I have some insights from Lady_Salina to work on myself. And we can always "free ski" with some of my instructor friends at Tremblant too! I need to work on this too.

Also there is something called the Summit Club at Tremblant. You can get 10 group lessons for around $ 500. Good all season they are running the Club. Pierre Mondor or Pete Defrene are the bump specialists.
 

john petersen

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good bump skiing. I like your energy and willingness to "keep skiing" when things get a little gnarly. I agree that you will probably benefit from skiing rounder slower longer turns through the bumps. (not on that trail in your vid!, but somewhere wider)......That way, once familiar, you can work in wider turns here and there in more narrow areas, and add that to your zipper line turns for more versatility....... to do this is harder...for sure, but will help a lot!..........and, you may have a few epiphanies that center around finding better balance in your boots by trying to soften some of the terrain with active avalement, passive flexion/extension, as well as active extension when needed.....

The dolphin move is great!....take that with you both in long radius turns in the bumps, as well as short turns. If you want to try a hard extension once in a while to hop over two bumps at once...go for it!....but it must be like continuing your turning in the air and when landing, blend in the skills you need to keep skiing......

More skill blend is what you need, from what I see. You have all the pieces....you just need to experiment blending them with new tempos, throttle application, and timing.....(DIRT)

technically, I think, you may be initiating turning forces from the thigh/hip/lower torso area as opposed to the turning from the feet and legs. (that means you havent far to go to master smoother runs if you can re-focus your energy a bit)....

some turns are helped out, but not necessarily initiated with the arms and hands....which aint too bad.....but you may find you need to do that less if you can find a more centered place in your boots and generate turning from a little lower in the legs.....

ski tips are loaded just a bit on the heavy side at turn initiation. (Jet, avalement, dolphin, slow line will help a lot here!)

again...your skiing is fun to watch...way to go!

JP
 

Mike King

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Just to emphasize a couple of items from above:

  • Watch how much Jonathan Ballou is flexing and extending in the video Mark posted. The ability to move through the full range of motion is a real key to unlocking your bump skiing. It changes it from a 2 dimensional game of skiing around the bumps to a 3 dimensional strategy of picking whatever line you want.
  • Key to getting that flexion and extension is being able to change edges in your most flexed (compressed) state. Practice this on the groomers. See how low you can go in the transition and how tall you can get in the apex (fall line) of the turn.
  • You've got a good bit of pushing the skis away from you in your bump skiing. Try to stay move over the ski and shape the turn. You will have less edge, but more ability to control your speed by drifting the ski above the fall line. This will also spread the pressure phase over a greater portion of the turn rather than it hitting late in the bottom of the turn. It will also allow you to take a rounder line that will be smoother with greater ski performance.

Mike
 

cosmoliu

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I also think the skiing in the OP video is pretty good :)

I had started this reply yesterday, before markojp added those great videos and his own excellent commentary, so this may seem a little off point. Still, I'll forge ahead.

As far as my recent experience getting my weight forward, I have to credit a gear purchase this past season with FINALLY putting me solidly on that path. Now, I don't want it to sound like I believe you can actually buy better turns with new equipment, but that's sort of true in this case. That equipment would be a pair of Stockli Laser AXs. Over the past three years or so, during which I have really put a lot of effort into sucking less in the bumps, I have strung together most of the skills/pointers needed to attain that goal. T-Square makes a good point:
Another thing to remember is that when you get into challenging terrain you tend to revert to older movement patterns where you are "comfortable." So, while you may be standing on your skis and driving them when on groomers, you may unconsciously move into the back seat when you dive into the bumps. Thus you may need to concentrate on the basic fundamentals when you challenge yourself.

When I first got on the AXs, they were immediately responsive on groomers but I couldn't get their full measure in the bumps for a good 8-10 days. In retrospect, it dawned on me that it takes no great skill set to pressure the AXs' tips when the going is easy. However, reverting to old back seat habits in the bumps, even if only slightly, is a total non-starter. I have come to find that the AXs take absolutely no instructions from the back seat. Every other ski I've had in the past will at least do something when muscled from the back seat. Not the AXs. Nothing. Nada. It's like they are saying, "You can do better than that: I'm just going to ignore you until you give me some bona fide guidance". To that extent, they are not a forgiving ski. But at the same time, they don't punish inadequate technique, as some of the more demanding skis I have sampled will. Dawgcatching started a great thread both here and over at epicski about the Laser SC

https://forum.pugski.com/threads/stockli-laser-sc-170cm-the-ski-everyone-should-own.1418/

He makes the cogent argument that the SCs will force you to be a better skier. With that, and always a sucker for a ski that might put a bigger grin on my face, I gave him a call. I wound up getting the AX as it seemed the better choice for me. Best gear purchase of my life. And the best skis I've ever taken in the bumps.

Sorry if this seems like a thread hijack to brag on my new skis. But...It really kind of is... ogwink
 

mike_m

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Something that Eric and Sebastien are doing that the OP is not:

They are not trying to fight the mountain; they are working with it in partnership. The OP is consistently slamming his pole tip down and using a blocking pole plant. He extends his legs down into the trough, then does nothing. The hill then slams his skis up and back under him in a violent rebound (which often results in his losing balance and bending forward from the waist from the force of the impact).

Eric and Sebastien anticipate the hill pushing back and, therefore, are in a position to stay tall and relaxed and react immediately to the pressure generated by the trough pushing their skis back up under them when they reach maximum extension of their legs. At that point, they actively retract. There is an old saying: "You can fight the hill all day. It's bigger than you are. It's going to win." Why not take what it gives you and work with it?!

Eric and Sebastien rarely use a blocking pole plant (a useful tool to have when needed in in recoveries, of course) and, instead, use a gentler pole touch to allow a harmonious rhythm to be created. Because they are usually in balance, they rarely need to recover! Anticipating the retraction and actively sucking up his legs (think of making your thighs horizontal) would likely do wonders for this skier. He is athletic and can survive bumps this way, but it doesn't look very enjoyable!

Good luck!
 

graham418

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A drill we sometimes do in our bump lessons is constant medium radius turns. Maintaining a consistent arc, ignoring where the bumps are. You may be turning on the front, side ,back of the bump, wherever they may be in your turn.
 

karlo

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find somebody who is good at round turns and follow the same path

If you also mean following the skier, me, I find that difficult. I end up too focused on the other skier's path such that I lose perspective of what I am skiing, the fall line, the over all field of bumps, what's coming up ahead. I find it best to discuss what is seen and what one will try to achieve. Then, watch the other skier do it. Then, plan my own line.

And, I'm a trial and error guy. So, when working on a skill, I like skiing the same trail or field over and over. Try this, try that, see what works and what doesn't. And, if your instructor or coach tells you that's a bad line for the type of turns you are working on, do it anyway. See for yourself why it doesn't work as well as another line.

At the moment, I do not have access to YouTube, but I do see a still shot of your video. Looks like you hit a bump pretty hard. I agree with another post to extend into the trough. Extend as early as you can after the top of the bump. And, as for the active retraction, I suggest visualizing, as you ski, your upper body sailing smoothly above the waves. If you focus on doing that, your legs will extend and retract as needed to achieve that objective. Try that visualization in smaller bumps first. Look at the whole field of waves in front of you, then ski through it. Just a suggestion.
 

karlo

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Yeah! I can now see the video! Love the extension, or better word, the 'reach' at 0:50 to engage. Give this a try. Stay that way, really tall, til the next bump. You'll have tons of absorption available. Then reach again for the next backside.

Regardless,as previously said, watching others ski is far better. We humans, unfortunately, over think and over dissect it. I think of animals in the wild.


Then, work on making those skis an extension of yourself, literally, as impalas and other animals do with their legs. Once you do,

 
Last edited:

François Pugh

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Good skiing. No doubt better than mine. Nothing I can add except generalities. Speaking of which, here's something that I find fun to work on in bumps, a hold-over from my days working with (and later teaching) superposition of waves. You may enjoy this little game too. I make regular short radius (not-arc-2-arc carved) turns of whatever radius my heart desires (sometime rut line, sometimes round line, sometimes turning on tops, sometimes turning on backside, sometimes on front side- it varies), but always try to make my extension and retraction match the terrain so well that my skis can't tell if they are on a flat groomed run or a mogul run. I'm not always successful, but this little game has improved my bump skiing. Another thing I sometimes do that is a real challenge, but also a great improver is to just go straight down while retracting and extending. Success with the latter depends on slope and spacing of bumps.

The trick is to stay back and balanced (not in backseat) to avoid the over the handlebar experience.

Been there, done that, really, really don't like it.

A few years back, this used to happen to me every time I hit the moguls on my SL skis after skiing my GS skis before getting used to the SLs again.
 

mdf

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Along these lines, I have a game I like to play occasionally. Many bump runs at bigger mountains start flat, with the bumps gradually building to their "real" size that is characteristic of the run. See how long you can make big turns, ignoring (well, except for absorption) the bumps, until you are forced to make a "mogul " turn.
 

PTskier

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I was in backseat for the first few turns;I'm still working on the getting forward part;pushing tips back down part
Easy. Don't even think about getting forward. Don't think about pushing the tips down. Do this--as your feet cross the drop off, strongly pull both feet back, way back. That brings your tips down and brings your body over the skis. You're now in balance with your tips engaged in the snow--you have the opportunity for control. Rule of thumb--if your tips are in the air you have no control.

A rounder slower line is actually what I'm hoping to do
Easy. After you pull the tips back, and the tips come down to the snow, make a curving side slip on the mogul. Won't work with your tips in the air. Works easy with the tips back and down.

Add real, definite, big absorption. For a drill, ski straight across a bump run. As your skis come to a rise, slightly push your feet forward and pull your knees up to your chest. As the skis go over the crest and start down, very strongly pull both feet back and push your legs straight. Your goal is for your body to not move up or down at all. Your legs do it all. No slamming. No air. The goal of your feet is even pressure on the snow in all conditions, ski tips engaged in the snow all the time except that moment of cresting the top. Control this pressure by retracting or extending your knees. Repeat the drill until you have it smooth and almost automatic. The automatic parts comes with a few more hundred repetitions.
 

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