Re-mounting original bindings question

[everest8850]

got a pair of wood cored skis that need to be remounted with the original bindings. Holes were filled with wood glue or epoxy when I had a new binding attached. Need some advice as how to get the glue/epoxy out and screw back the old bindings. The holes were filled about 3 months ago. Original threads were good when I took out the binding. thanks

 

[DanoT]

I am not an expert so this why I am asking the question: Why do you think you need to remove the glue? Can't you just re-drill the old holes? Even if the old holes had the proper plastic plug glued and hammered into them, can't you just drill right through the plug?

 

[Doug Briggs]

You should be able to drill out the glue. Center the drill bit in the holes carefully. If the skis have metal top sheets, tapping would be advised, but probably not critical. If the new holes matched the old ones, the threads of the screw will quite likely find the old threads in the ski. You don't need a jig to do this, but a jig would help make it easier to exactly match the old hole location and keep the bit square to the ski.

If there is metal in the top sheet, use a 4.1 mm bit. If not, 3.5 or 3.6. These are ski specific sizes, a 4 mm is close enough for metal, I think. Unless your bits are in 0.5 increments, 3.5 is going to be hard to come by except through a shop or supplier.

 

[firebanex]

3.5mm is 9/64. Pretty sure I have a regular bit in that size somewhere in my drill bit collection. It has been a while since I used regular bits for mounting but I may have just used a 1/8th and kinda wallowed the hole out a bit last time. I've got a set of Wintersteiger bits now, they don't cost too much and are definitely worth it for even mounting a single pair of skis. Got mine for about 15$ each with a handful of hole plugs with each bit. The peace of mind for eliminating the fear of putting a hole all the way through a brand new ski is priceless.

 

[everest8850]

Thanks. The new bindings are Marker F12s, so when I take those off, i''ll have two different sets of holes - the Marker ones and the older z12s( plugged with epoxy ). The key issue was how to remove that epoxy and re-mount the Z12s

 

[everest8850]

Thanks. Will check my drill bits to see what I have

You should be able to drill out the glue. Center the drill bit in the holes carefully. If the skis have metal top sheets, tapping would be advised, but probably not critical. If the new holes matched the old ones, the threads of the screw will quite likely find the old threads in the ski. You don't need a jig to do this, but a jig would help make it easier to exactly match the old hole location and keep the bit square to the ski.

If there is metal in the top sheet, use a 4.1 mm bit. If not, 3.5 or 3.6. These are ski specific sizes, a 4 mm is close enough for metal, I think. Unless your bits are in 0.5 increments, 3.5 is going to be hard to come by except through a shop or supplier.

 

[DanoT]

3.5mm is 9/64. Pretty sure I have a regular bit in that size somewhere in my drill bit collection. It has been a while since I used regular bits for mounting but I may have just used a 1/8th and kinda wallowed the hole out a bit last time. I've got a set of Wintersteiger bits now, they don't cost too much and are definitely worth it for even mounting a single pair of skis. Got mine for about 15$ each with a handful of hole plugs with each bit. The peace of mind for eliminating the fear of putting a hole all the way through a brand new ski is priceless.

For the price of a roll of tape you can easily make a "bump stop" for your drill bit: Leaving the desired length of drill bit exposed, wrap a thick wad of tape around the shaft of the drill bit and now you cannot drill too deep.

 

[Doug Briggs]

3.5mm is 9/64. Pretty sure I have a regular bit in that size somewhere in my drill bit collection. It has been a while since I used regular bits for mounting but I may have just used a 1/8th and kinda wallowed the hole out a bit last time. I've got a set of Wintersteiger bits now, they don't cost too much and are definitely worth it for even mounting a single pair of skis. Got mine for about 15$ each with a handful of hole plugs with each bit. The peace of mind for eliminating the fear of putting a hole all the way through a brand new ski is priceless.

I get my bits at the shop. ;-) I figured they were pricey. The stop makes all the difference.

For the price of a roll of tape you can easily make a "bump stop" for your drill bit: Leaving the desired length of drill bit exposed, wrap a thick wad of tape around the shaft of the drill bit and now you cannot drill too deep.

Be careful with the tape solution. I've done this and if your skis internal structure means you 'punch' through some layers easily after hard ones, you may force the tape up the bit accidentally. Edit: the picture below illustrates what could happen. The tape started at the right height on the bit.

 

[cantunamunch]

^tape works much better if you add a bead of 5-minute epoxy to the tape.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Of the two bits, even with epoxy on the taped one, which would you choose?

I guess I'm spoiled but I'd prefer the right tool given that it is readily available. I only created the taped bit before I worked at a shop and was sweating bullets the entire time I was drilling my vintage skis.

 

[cantunamunch]

Of the two bits, even with epoxy on the taped one, which would you choose? .

Well, you already know the answer to that - but the epoxy would make me sweat less if I didn't already have the stepped bits.

 

[Eleeski]

If you use a drill press with the stops properly set, the tape stays in place. I still like the tape just to give an easy visual that my drill press setup is right.

I also like the drill press for the ease of drilling straight.

However, maybe just sticking a red hot nail in the hole might melt out the epoxy and leave the old threads in good shape.

Eric

 

[PTskier]

A set of stop collars for drill bits costs $7 at Lowe's. They're available at many stores. 9mm is a good depth for the stop.

3.6 mm is good for skis without a metal layer. That's close enough to 9/64".
4.1 mm is good for skis with a metal layer. That's very close to a #20 drill bit.

If there is a raised lip on the hole after drilling, a light touch with a countersink is a good idea.

 

[mishka]

For the price of a roll of tape you can easily make a "bump stop" for your drill bit: Leaving the desired length of drill bit exposed, wrap a thick wad of tape around the shaft of the drill bit and now you cannot drill too deep.

mach better option
https://www.google.com/search?ei=TK...psy-ab..0.2.182...0i67k1j0i10k1.0.g1A-uZJ7-lc

 

[firebanex]

I guess I'm spoiled but I'd prefer the right tool given that it is readily available. I only created the taped bit before I worked at a shop and was sweating bullets the entire time I was drilling my vintage skis.

I used to use taped bits or a bit with some permanent marker marking the 9mm depth as well.. Terrified every single time I mounted bindings that I was gonna punch through the ski with it. Metal laminate gives way quite abruptly and makes it really easy to go too deep.

 

[Eleeski]

I've tried drill stops but found them less accurate than tape and a drill press. Stops are OK if you are careful, don't push too hard and check after each hole. Operator skill and attention is required regardless.

Someone mentioned countersinking the metal topsheet. I avoid that as the metal can be important for screw retention. A light pass with a file or dremel or maybe a tap with a hammer will get anything lifted back flat and still leave metal to grip.

A red hot nail followed by a very warm screw easily cleans the old hole. If I try to drill it out there's enough misalignment to compromise the old threads and grip strength. But the waterski holes I work with are smaller and have less tolerance. Epoxy and steel wool in the loose hole fix my mistakes.

Eric

 

[Doug Briggs]

I certainly am an advocate of bit stop collars. I'd forgotten they exist.

Drill press also didn't come to mind as I don't own a wood or fabrication shop. That'd be pretty nice to use. Drill stop built in, perpendicular holes and great accuracy for hole placement.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I've tried drill stops but found them less accurate than tape and a drill press. Stops are OK if you are careful, don't push too hard and check after each hole. Operator skill and attention is required regardless.

Someone mentioned countersinking the metal topsheet. I avoid that as the metal can be important for screw retention. A light pass with a file or dremel or maybe a tap with a hammer will get anything lifted back flat and still leave metal to grip.

A red hot nail followed by a very warm screw easily cleans the old hole. If I try to drill it out there's enough misalignment to compromise the old threads and grip strength. But the waterski holes I work with are smaller and have less tolerance. Epoxy and steel wool in the loose hole fix my mistakes.

Eric

Agreed on the drill stops. Skis are too expensive/valuable for mistakes.

I also agree about countersinking although some of the shop's bits countersink ever so slightly; usually it is just into the plastic over the metal that is countersunk. Removing anything that is above the topsheet after drilling is key to getting a good firm mounting of the binding to the ski. You'd be surprised how many skis you can see daylight between the binding and the ski. Not good.

Red hot nails could work but could also do damage. Consider that while you are melting the epoxy you don't want you could also be melting the epoxy used to build the ski. In the OP's case where a he has filled the holes with epoxy, redrilling the holes even slightly off and removing some of the old thread will still leave a clean hole that could be tapped (if necessary) and a strong attachment for the screw. That the new threads are in epoxy and metal, not just metal, doesn't bother me in the least.

This whole discussion brings to bear the importance of using the right solution to problems. I find that drilling plastic plugs that have been wood-glued into old holes works really well. Use a 3.5 mm bit and the bit will self-center on the plug as it penetrates, often pulling the remaining plug out of the hole as you extract your bit from the ski. At that point you have hole prepared as neatly as you might want with threads intact ready to receive glue and screw.

 

[Monster]

Sounds like OP is re-mounting bindings directly to the skis - hence the need to free the old holes. Why not use slip-slot race plates and drill new holes? Unlikely they'd hit the original binding holes. Plus, you'd get better binding performance, better ski flex, and some lift in the bargain,

 

[cantunamunch]

Sounds like OP is re-mounting bindings directly to the skis - hence the need to free the old holes. Why not use slip-slot race plates and drill new holes? Unlikely they'd hit the original binding holes. Plus, you'd get better binding performance, better ski flex, and some lift in the bargain,

OP is using a super-short super-light approach ski with a touring binding.

I like your approach for resort skis and the proof is - I have used it for my own inbounds skis since ~2001 - but I wouldn't recommend it here.

EDIT: And welcome to the forum