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hbear

Out on the slopes
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890
Sometimes I just use one of these!

View attachment 30577

Don't laugh, I literally saw a video of Jesper Tjader take one of those free hand to his park skis when his edges were cacthing on some rails.

Seemed to do the job for his purposes!

For those who don't know, Jesper is a super sick freestyler under contract with Head.
 

hbear

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And with the Snowglide (similar to the Razr Tune) the disc using some spring pressure and the force of the spinning to pull the disc to edge at a very constant pressure.

Literally all you have to do is keep the guide bearings on the ski and keep the machine moving at a constant rate.

Among a few additional factors, I opted for the AFL as it has raised round stainless steel guides under the machine. That slight additional height actually makes it easy to get into the tips and tails, something the AFC or other units have more trouble with.

Protek uses a similar spring pressure on the tray as well, but has a cutting depth adjustment as well.
 

PTskier

Been goin' downhill for years....
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The sharpening gets a little tricky near the tips and tails due to the compound curves and lack of purchase for the guide bearings. It may be a good idea to sharpen these areas by hand. Or, maybe these areas don't need sharpening.
You don't want the edge sharpened beyond the point where the base contacts the snow. If you're skiing in a frozen rut, you don't want a sharp edge on the curve to grab the sides of the rut and throw you around.
 

KingGrump

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You don't want the edge sharpened beyond the point where the base contacts the snow. If you're skiing in a frozen rut, you don't want a sharp edge on the curve to grab the sides of the rut and throw you around.

Detuning tips and tails were de rigeur during the straight ski days.
There are different schools of thought regarding detuning tips and tails on shape skis.
Some do and some don't.

I'm one of those that sharpen the entire ski and never detune any of it. It works for me. YMMV.
You can always detune it on the hill with a 200 grit diamond stone.
 

Swede

Making fresh tracks
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You don't want the edge sharpened beyond the point where the base contacts the snow. If you're skiing in a frozen rut, you don't want a sharp edge on the curve to grab the sides of the rut and throw you around.

What I've learned from tech's working on the WC is a race ski should be sharp from tip to tail. All the way. All mountains and other type of skis used in free and leisure skiing might be different.
 

Doug Briggs

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I like to sharpen beyond the contact points and remove excessive sharpness depending on the application. Mostly this is to eliminate dings and other irregularities.

Detuning beyond the contact points has no direct correlation with ability. It is personal preference. Detuning between the contact points is not the norm and not needed for the same reasons we did it in the 'old' days. However, how sharp and where it's sharp is a matter of personal preference. Don't think of it as detuning but fine tuning.

The machine in the shop I work at will tune the skis beyond the contact points. We take the fine sharpness off beyond the contact points. Between the contact points they stay sha'p (as we say in Maine). Early rise gets the sharpness removed a bit in the early rise zone.

I find that what is most important in tunes is consistency. If you are used to sharp along the entire edge, you'll notice if it isn't and vice versa.
 

PTskier

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Detuning was dulling the edge behind the tip contact point with the snow. Before we did a base edge bevel, flat all the way across, this was a good idea. A very old good idea. Now we are not talking of detuning any part of the edge normally in contact with the snow.

About World Cup racing tuning...them ain't us. Find the tune you like, and as Doug says, consistently stay with it.
 

BGreen

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The easiest way to explain detune is...

If you have to detune you are not as good as you think you are.

I would say if you have to detune, your boot alignment is off. Further, old school mentality was detune to contact points. On a rockered ski like the Rossignol, how far back would you detune.
 

oldschoolskier

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I would say if you have to detune, your boot alignment is off. Further, old school mentality was detune to contact points. On a rockered ski like the Rossignol, how far back would you detune.
Sorry really gotta disagree here, it is still an issue, nothing to do with old school, just individuals not understanding how edging works. Primarily you can’t ski neutral and balanced. Alignment may occasionally be an issue, but most cases it’s poor skiing. This applied then and really applies now.
 

Doug Briggs

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I will use a gummi to take the hyper-sharp edge down a bit. Sometimes just the shovel, other times beyond the contact point. I do this on my speed skis, I do this on my recreational skis. If a ski has early rise, I do it to the contact point of the early rise. I have neither an alignment problem nor a 'poor skiing' problem. It is just what I like. I don't like a ski that grabs at the tip until I'm ready for it to. Especially when I travelling 60 mph. Or through the trees. Or along the edge of a trail.

I particularly don't like grabby tails and will insure that they are not sharp at the point of contact. Not dull, but not sharp. My skiing often relies on the ski not carving all the time and sharp tails impede that.

How much to detune is a bit like choosing lenses. Everyone has their own opinion and it really doesn't matter to anyone else what color lens you choose.
 

hbear

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If I remember Ted's tech rounds off the shovels and very end of the tails. Also increases the bevel there as well, not shooting for a specific angle, just "more" than what was put on the machine base tune.
 

Jacques

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If I remember Ted's tech rounds off the shovels and very end of the tails. Also increases the bevel there as well, not shooting for a specific angle, just "more" than what was put on the machine base tune.

Yes, there is video evidence of this on YouTube.
 

Dave Petersen

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I recently bought a Razor-Tune. It's a power sharpener for ski side edges. I decided to document my first time using it. I tested on an old Blizzard GSR. The photos were taken with a macro lens and cropped/resized so they represent the same exact section of side edge with the same number of pixels.

Here's what the ski looked like before. It had a coat of storage wax over a hand tune. I rubbed off most of the wax with a cloth.
full


After 4-5 passes with the coarse wheel, it looked like this:
full


Next I did 6-8 passes with the medium wheel and got this:
full


I then put some WD-40 on the fine wheel and did four passes, yielding this:
full


I then polished the base edge with a yellow (400) Moonflex in a 1-degree guide and got this (not much different):
full


Finally, for comparison, I hand polished the side edge with a yellow Moonflex in a 3-degree guide, resulting in this:
full


The Razor-Tune comes from the factory set for 3-degrees. There's also a 2-degree plate in the box. It's pretty straightforward to use if you're coordinated enough to hand-tune skis. The coarse and medium wheels will make some sparks. Due to the metal dust, it's a good idea to wear a respirator.

The sharpening gets a little tricky near the tips and tails due to the compound curves and lack of purchase for the guide bearings. It may be a good idea to sharpen these areas by hand. Or, maybe these areas don't need sharpening. My whole point in buying this was to save time.

To me, the last two photos both look pretty good. Clearly, the scratch patterns go in different directions. Accounting for that, I think the result from the Razor-Tune is actually finer. I suspect that the diagonal grind may cut into ice better than the parallel pattern.

At the moment, I'm a satisfied customer. It remains to be seen how much af a hassle the metal dust ends up being for indoor use. Also, we'll see if the noise wakes my kids at night. It's not super-loud, but it is an electric grinder after all.

Nicely done!
 

Nicad

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Pretty close to pulling the trigger on this or the Swix (Or if I could find a great deal on a used Protek) Question...., has anyone skied on this Razor-Tune on ice? I am a Master's racer and never seem to get my edges as sharp as the other guy. Getting tired of tuning for one hour plus before a race. I race in Ontario....and it's icy.
Tia
 

UGASkiDawg

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And with the Snowglide (similar to the Razr Tune) the disc using some spring pressure and the force of the spinning to pull the disc to edge at a very constant pressure.

Literally all you have to do is keep the guide bearings on the ski and keep the machine moving at a constant rate.

Among a few additional factors, I opted for the AFL as it has raised round stainless steel guides under the machine. That slight additional height actually makes it easy to get into the tips and tails, something the AFC or other units have more trouble with.

Protek uses a similar spring pressure on the tray as well, but has a cutting depth adjustment as well.


I have the Protek and the titanal layer and the plastic sidewall will really get in the way if it's not pulled back. That titanal layers doesn't grind away nearly as easily as the sk edge.
 

Doug Briggs

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I have the Protek and the titanal layer and the plastic sidewall will really get in the way if it's not pulled back. That titanal layers doesn't grind away nearly as easily as the sk edge.

That is also an issue with our TrimJet. We use our old Grindrite belt edger to pull back the sidewall/metal layers prior to using the TJ. It saves a lot of wear and tear on the expensive ceramic discs and is much quicker than using traditional sidewall planers.
 

oldschoolskier

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Pretty close to pulling the trigger on this or the Swix (Or if I could find a great deal on a used Protek) Question...., has anyone skied on this Razor-Tune on ice? I am a Master's racer and never seem to get my edges as sharp as the other guy. Getting tired of tuning for one hour plus before a race. I race in Ontario....and it's icy.
Tia
Might I suggest a 0.5/4 just be careful it is aggressive and can catch if not skied balanced. I don’t race but I love it on Ontario conditions.
 

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