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James

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I haven’t seen a fis slalom ski at 2mm edge width in a long time. I doubt my Rossi Masters 21m cheaters ever had 2mm edges. I’m sure of it, cause I was pissed they were so narrow. It’s a freakin masters ski for god’s sake.

The whole thing is ridiculous. Put more edge on the damn things. The spec should be legal with close to no edge. Then there’s no doubt. If you want to go grind 0.5mm of edge of to make it faster, knock yourself out. Have a different spec for wcup skiers. Who cares with them as they’re not paying for skis.
Meanwhile, places are doing things to try and make racing less expensive. Skis that last longer would help.
 

maxwerks

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I went ahead and bought the Fichers, they are that good. Indeed they are a WC model so the edges were even thinner than regular FIS skis. Previous owner recommends to only use 200 to 1000 stones on them, as 100 would be too aggressive, let alone a file. Will see how it goes. For sure they will be great fun while they last.
 

razie

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You're fine. Get a superfine file and use it sparingly. It's important to keep them sharp! Most of the time, a simple touch up with a 400 will be enough, on a daily basis. If you're on ice, start with a 200 and follow up with a 400. When you can't get them as sharp as you know they can be or before a relevant race, use one-two passes with a superfine file first...
 
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Primoz

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Personally, I don't imagine doing skis with stones only. File is necessary but yeah it means ski life gets shorter because of that, but you just need to take it that way. If you want to keep ski alive for decades avoiding file, then honestly I don't see reason to even bother getting such ski, as it will be anything but optimal. If I have good ski, I want it to be done good, and to be able to ski the way it should ski, this means with sharp edges. If this means it survives just through the season, well be it so. Yeah I know easy to say this, when you get skis for free, but still :)
 

Primoz

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I haven’t seen a fis slalom ski at 2mm edge width in a long time. I doubt my Rossi Masters 21m cheaters ever had 2mm edges. I’m sure of it, cause I was pissed they were so narrow. It’s a freakin masters ski for god’s sake.
The whole thing is ridiculous. Put more edge on the damn things. The spec should be legal with close to no edge. Then there’s no doubt. If you want to go grind 0.5mm of edge of to make it faster, knock yourself out. Have a different spec for wcup skiers. Who cares with them as they’re not paying for skis.
Meanwhile, places are doing things to try and make racing less expensive. Skis that last longer would help.
For speed skis, I actually somehow understand this. Steel is slower then ptex, so you don't want thick edges. For GS/SL it's BS, and it's just a reason to make you buy skis more often. Ok there could be another reason, and that's that company has single size edges for race department, and same size (thickness) goes into DH skis and into SL skis. Could be, but realistically there's absolutely no need to have super thin edges for GS/SL skis. It won't make any difference in speed.
 

ski otter 2

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Whatta I know, but.....

Apologies, but using these skis for racing (where 1/1000th second counts) versus recreationally (where optimal edge engagement and dynamic experience/feel alone are king), are, in my experience, probably a bit different.

For recreational use, IMHO, preserving the life of the ski becomes relatively more important; whereas for competitive racing, labor time in the clutch and the last 1/10,000th of speed matter more.

For example, seems like if I use for initial edge set a standard three or four file progression (including the standard use of progressive sandpaper, etc. treatment on base and at base plastic/metal edge interface) from bastard file, to second and third file, to finest file, to progressively, say, 100 through 600 diamond in c. 100 intervals; then use 600 ceramic, and then with alternating strokes 1200 ceramic finished by 1500 diamond stone (for last burr removal), by hand - that's fast, smooth and sharp.

And at least recreationally, with few gates, all I usually need for maintenance for some time afterwards is the use of 200 and finer - often only 600 ceramic and finer, to keep that sucker super sharp and smooth, no burrs, no rounding. No loss of performance (recreationally) - that I can so far discern, at least.

Tuning in this way - often maintaining proper race edges with 600 grit or less - seems to mean that the base will need flattening again (and thus the edges will need some file resetting), before another file sharpening/resetting by itself is required - all while minimizing edge wear. (Maybe @razie's suggestion of adding a super fine file to maintenance rather than just initial setting procedure would improve things, not sure: haven't tried such variations in some years.)

In terms of just sharpness, honing with a fine white ceramic rod or stone (as fine as 1200) as last step is all it takes to keep a kitchen, hunting or skinning knife absolutely razor sharp, enough to cut with no pressure. In practical terms, almost perfect sharpness, with alternating final strokes. The same would be true for ski edges. Actually, using a diamond stone 1500 for the last few alternating strokes eliminates the possibility of that last little bit of burr, as far as it being detectable with one's fingernail.

Held on edge at the right angle in the sunlight, there is no flat spot or bright reflection back anywhere: a perfectly sharp edge down to extra fine level.

Not sure how more use of files could improve on this, except eliminate very slight ripples, perhaps. That last 1/10,000th of speed.
 
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Swede

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Inme (for racing!) you def need a file every now and then (they should be sharp from tip to tail, no dulling) to restore the sharpness. Files are not for WC only. Very noticable difference. Stones are good for maintaining the edges and get rid of burr, but after a handful of practice sessions (diamond stoning), that file needs to come out. Before a race—extra love (I use two files with diffrent cuts). For free skiing on pistes that are only firm, you don’t need razor sharp and can get away with a compromise. But why get a GT3RS and put on budget tires? ogsmile Ok, drifting can be a lot of fun too!
 

François Pugh

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I don't race, but I typically ski on some very hard and icy snow. I touch up my (Fischer WC RC4 SC) edges lightly every day with stones, but every once in a while, say every 10 to 15 days, the file has to come out.

Also noticed as my edges get thinner on my beloved Fischers, I am more tolerant of non-razor sharp edges. That last millimeter will last a long time.
 

razie

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Also noticed as my edges get thinner on my beloved Fischers, I am more tolerant of non-razor sharp edges. That last millimeter will last a long time.
Skis die in time anyhow. A stiff race ski especially dies in say 40-60 days anyhow, when skied well... it can still be ok and fun for someone, but it's not a GT3RS anymore.

IMHO, it depends what you ski on, how and how much you use them... on injected all day, they may need file daily.
 

James

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For recreational use, IMHO, preserving the life of the ski becomes relatively more important; whereas for competitive racing, labor time in the clutch and the last 1/10,000th of speed matter more.
We’re talking slalom here. A slight mistake and there goes a hours worth of massaging the edges to some level of smoothness.

You might have a case for wcup skiers, but even they make huge mistakes.
Btw, @Primoz , works on the wcup.

You can’t get skis sharp with just stones after a certain dullness. It’s just basic sharpening geometry. I mean you could, but it would take forever to take off enough metal to get a point. The guy who mentioned it has so little edge left he wants to preserve it.

Most use grinders these days anyway. Tri-one etc.
 

François Pugh

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Skis die in time anyhow. A stiff race ski especially dies in say 40-60 days anyhow, when skied well... it can still be ok and fun for someone, but it's not a GT3RS anymore.

IMHO, it depends what you ski on, how and how much you use them... on injected all day, they may need file daily.
So I've noticed. Lucky for me my weight went from 165 lbs to 130 lbs over the last 6 months to compensate.
 

KingGrump

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We’re talking slalom here. A slight mistake and there goes a hours worth of massaging the edges to some level of smoothness.

You might have a case for wcup skiers, but even they make huge mistakes.
Btw, @Primoz , works on the wcup.

You can’t get skis sharp with just stones after a certain dullness. It’s just basic sharpening geometry. I mean you could, but it would take forever to take off enough metal to get a point. The guy who mentioned it has so little edge left he wants to preserve it.

Most use grinders these days anyway. Tri-one etc.

The side edge does not wear evenly. The side edges on my skis usually wear faster towards the base than towards the side wall.
I usually use a 200 diamond stone at the end of day with a guide to deburr the edges.
When I file the side edge, the file marks (fresh metal) appears on the section of the side edge toward the side wall first. I file the side edge until the file mark (fresh metal) intersects with the base edge. I stop filing when that happens. I normally follow the Toko guy’s rec for tuning when it comes to the progression of files & stones. .

Now with an edge grinder, It’s two or three passes per edge. Same as above. No set number of passes. Just watch the grinding marks until they hit the base edge. Deburr the base edge and I am good to go. No diamond stone on the side edge.

In the NE, it’s every 3 to 5 days. Depending on how hard the snow is. Out west, it’s 10 to 15 days.
My skis usually die long before running out of edges.

FWIW, the grinder seems to produce an edge with more grip than with a file. I don’t race. Just free ski. So can't speak for speed event participants.
 

maxwerks

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You're fine. Get a superfine file and use it sparingly. It's important to keep them sharp! Most of the time, a simple touch up with a 400 will be enough, on a daily basis. If you're on ice, start with a 200 and follow up with a 400. When you can't get them as sharp as you know they can be or before a relevant race, use one-two passes with a superfine file first...

Exactly what I have in mind. I won't compromise much on sharpness in the gates. If the file is needed I will use it. Great discussion here, really helpful
 

Burton

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FWIW, the grinder seems to produce an edge with more grip than with a file. I don’t race. Just free ski. So can't speak for speed event participants.
I got a Razortune ceramic disc grinder last year. I take pride in my hand tuning, having been learned over many years of working on my race skis and now my kids' race skis. But the disc grinder is just better, and I'm someone that would file and work up through 600 grit diamond, sometimes even up to hard arkansas stones when I had nothing better to do. I've wondered if the machined edges feel sharper than hand tuned because of micro-serrations, or if they are actually sharper. Whatever the case, the disc grinder delivers an incredibly grippy, consistent edge. Only drawback is all the blood.
 

Marker

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The side edge does not wear evenly. The side edges on my skis usually wear faster towards the base than towards the side wall.
I usually use a 200 diamond stone at the end of day with a guide to deburr the edges.
When I file the side edge, the file marks (fresh metal) appears on the section of the side edge toward the side wall first. I file the side edge until the file mark (fresh metal) intersects with the base edge. I stop filing when that happens. I normally follow the Toko guy’s rec for tuning when it comes to the progression of files & stones.
I've noticed the same thing and wondered if it was some defect in my tuning technique. Good to know it's just skiing. Where is this reference you mentioned?

I just restocked on some tuning and wax supplies in preparation for the upcoming season.
 

KingGrump

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Only drawback is all the blood.

Why all the blood?
I usually use the grinder dry. I get a pretty decent edge without additional lubrication.
 

NE1

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Why all the blood?
I usually use the grinder dry. I get a pretty decent edge without additional lubrication.

I took it to mean when handling the skis afterward...my race gloves all have blood stains inside from doing overlays or brushing...
 

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