Rank the Race Skis in Order...

[Erik Timmerman]

I wonder if those units (whatever they are) are comparable between different lengths.

 

[James]

I wonder if those units (whatever they are) are comparable between different lengths.

Probably not. I think it's deflection with a standard weight, and the lever arms are different with the sizes.

 

[Tony S]

What is the utility of making flex info marked on individual pairs of skis as much of a cipher as possible? They do this with Nordic skis, too - possibly even more. I have to imagine that it's so you can't actually pick a pair of skis without a high-end, high-markup dealer to provide the secret decoder ring.

 

[James]

What is the utility of making flex info marked on individual pairs of skis as much of a cipher as possible? They do this with Nordic skis, too - possibly even more. I have to imagine that it's so you can't actually pick a pair of skis without a high-end, high-markup dealer to provide the secret decoder ring.

In order to make them comparable, you'd have to come up with a standard test and everybody agree to it.
Didn't the ski mags at one time test flex? As I recall they tested tip, tail, and middle.

Augment has it down to a choice of 10. Without any reference, it's just as confusing.

 

[Tony S]

Augment has it down to a choice of 10. Without any reference, it's just as confusing

Disagree. In the case of Augment:

• They tell you up front that the skis vary in stiffness.
• They tell you up front that there are ten stiffnesses, indicated by a stand-alone integer from 1 to 10, with 1 the stiffest.
• For each pair they clearly and unambiguously indicate the stiffness number.

Other alpine race and nordic ski mfrs do none of that. You have to "just know," based on membership in some kind of insiders' club. It's un-American, I say!

 

[James]

Disagree. In the case of Augment:

• They tell you up front that the skis vary in stiffness.
• They tell you up front that there are ten stiffnesses, indicated by a stand-alone integer from 1 to 10, with 1 the stiffest.
• For each pair they clearly and unambiguously indicate the stiffness number.

Other alpine race and nordic ski mfrs do none of that. You have to "just know," based on membership in some kind of insiders' club. It's un-American, I say!

There's a number on the ski. Same as Augment. There's no material difference whether you call it a number between 1-10 or some other number. Augment's skis are not comparable across models. Sizes, probably not either. The big difference is it's easy to order them.

Try this guy for xc skis.
https://www.caldwellsport.com/2019/05/e-z-buyers-guide/

 

[Tony S]

There's a number on the ski. Same as Augment.

A "number" on the ski, like one of the following, or like the photo shown earlier, with no well known legend, is not at all the same as "stiffness: 7"

• GX73B95
• 57/32

 

[James]

A "number" on the ski, like one of the following, or like the photo shown earlier, with no well known legend, is not at all the same as "stiffness: 7"

• GX73B95
• 57/32

The number 7 means nothing without knowing if 1 or 10 is the stiffest.
For the "code" of reg race skis you just ask. Getting what you want is another matter. There's definitely a "you're not worthy" element to the system which goes all the way up to Hirscher. However, Stockli claiming their skis are the same used on the wcup is just a blatant lie or really poor for an athlete generating far more force than a rec racer.

The 1-10 scale is no different than knowing a higher number is softer than a lower number. The numbers are just different. (Note how Augment follows the "standard" system of deflection reporting.)
The 57/32 at least gives tip and tail differences.

The problem is you have no decent shop to work with.

None of these flexes make any difference without a baseline. How is it that Augment's #2 flex in a sl ski, 1 away from "cemented" was well liked by people who don't weigh all that much and are well over 55yrs old? Some like stiff, some don't. Racing times liking is often slower.

"Bending or longitudinal stiffness refers to the amount of energy it takes to activate the flex profile. AUGMENT skis are available in ten different bending stiffness options to maximise the versatility and easy turn initiation as well as having exactly the right bounce for each skier."

https://augment-sports.com/ski-fitting/ski-stiffness/

They just use a different scale. We could argue that it's good marketing as opposed to very poor marketing of the usual way.

 

[Tony S]

The problem is you have no decent shop to work with.

I want to know what all the options are up front, from an impartial source, and try to understand about where I should be looking in terms of flex. The last place I want to get my facts is from a shop motivated to share a bunch of half truths arranged around what inventory they happen to have at the moment. Been there with Nordic skis.

 

[DVL]

After I tried Volkl 195/35 this year (first time I tried some real race skis.. had a good deal on them), I'd like to buy myself some modern GS skis for freeskiing for the next season. I'm an amateur and I just want to have fun with it, so what I'm looking for is the feel rather than race performance. I weigh around 240lbs...

I came across a good offer of HEAD i.GS RD 193cm 2018/19. I know its usually described as user friendly and confidence inspiring etc., but what I'd like to ask is if any other brand is currently better with regards to its fun/feel/wow effect aspects? Rossignol maybe?

 

[razie]

The Head is great. A bit long that one, though... Can be a bit of a handful all mountain, depending on your experience. A 175 length would be more flexible at that radius.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Augment WC GS in 188/30. Best GS ski bar none ( and I have been on all te top brands)

 

[slowrider]

It is also interesting on how flexes change from size to size. Go in and try to flex a Rossignol junior SL in a 129...it can't be done. I will also add, I question if these smallest of sizes should even have plates at all.

32.6 cm boot-129 cm ski= 96.5 cm ski top sheet. ;-)

 

[DVL]

Augment WC GS in 188/30. Best GS ski bar none ( and I have been on all te top brands)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Augment-20...cd063fd10:g:gi4AAOSw8a9cPVkp&autorefresh=true
- What do you think? Price is OK to me. 188 is better?

 

[crgildart]

Brands standings
World Cup

https://www.fis-ski.com/DB/alpine-s...asoncode=2019&disciplinecode=ALL&gendercode=A

 

[ScotsSkier]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Augment-20...cd063fd10:g:gi4AAOSw8a9cPVkp&autorefresh=true
- What do you think? Price is OK to me. 188 is better?

It is a pretty decent deal (till you look at the shipping cost!). But, it is a Flex 2 which is just off the stiffest so a full on race ski. Hard to say how well it will work for you without some more info on your abilities/experience/how you plan to use it

 

[razie]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Augment-20...cd063fd10:g:gi4AAOSw8a9cPVkp&autorefresh=true
- What do you think? Price is OK to me. 188 is better?

Never skied that brand, but a 30m is a one trick pony... Not bad to own and ski, but I find the 18-23m to be a more useful range.

 

[DVL]

No international shipping anyways... :-(. Tried to contact the seller. I'm 28 yo, not an athlete but flexible, 180cm, 240lbs, . Started skiing when I was 6 and I think I have fairly good technique for an amateur. I'm definetely not afraid of speed and I like powerful, agressive skiing.

Is the difference between the HEAD and the Augment great enough so that its worth to let the good deal for HEADs go and wait for the Augument (and probably pay more for it)?

 

[Unpiste]

I want to know what all the options are up front, from an impartial source, and try to understand about where I should be looking in terms of flex. The last place I want to get my facts is from a shop motivated to share a bunch of half truths arranged around what inventory they happen to have at the moment. Been there with Nordic skis.

Agreed with @Tony S.

"Stiffness: 7" tells you that stiffness is a parameter when choosing the ski, that this ski is 7 out of 10 on whatever scale Augment is using (in which they do at least tell you which numbers are stiffer), and—most importantly—that you can actually find the stiffness you want once you've figured out what it is. "GX73B95" or "57/32" tell you nothing if you don't already know exactly what you're looking at. That would be fine if there was a way, as the customer buying the ski, to educate yourself, but I certainly haven't seen the information needed to actually understand what those numbers mean, let alone that they even describe stiffness, distributed anywhere publicly accessible.

I'm not sure how you'd ever really come up with a meaningful way to standardize measurement of a ski's stiffness, since whatever you choose, flex pattern, early rise, etc. are all going to affect the way a given ski measures. (Similar is true of, say, boot flex, or to an extent, ski length.) That doesn't mean it isn't extremely useful to understand where a ski falls within a manufacturer's lineup or within the range of flexes they may produce, and some attempt at standardization would still be far more useful than none.

 

[ScotsSkier]

No international shipping anyways... :-(. Tried to contact the seller. I'm 28 yo, not an athlete but flexible, 180cm, 240lbs, . Started skiing when I was 6 and I think I have fairly good technique for an amateur. I'm definetely not afraid of speed and I like powerful, agressive skiing.

Is the difference between the HEAD and the Augment great enough so that its worth to let the good deal for HEADs go and wait for the Augument (and probably pay more for it)?

There is a difference between powerful aggressive skiing at speed and being abler to actually use/bend the ski to work as intended and to be able to still ski safely with others around. Obviously at 240# you have weight on your side but unless allied with proper technique the 193/30 - which is the FIS mens ski - can still be a bit of a handful. Yes, it will feel great on a wide open slope doing SG type turns but will take work to bend tighter. And looking at your avatar, as a coach there some important things I would have you working on to be able to get the full performance and benefit out of the ski. The advantage of the 188/30 W FIS is that they usually are a bit softer in flex than the FIS M. I don't necessarily agree with Razie that the 18-23m radius is more useful - it may be better in Ontario or on small hills - but I am typically on a 30m ski as my default coaching ski and prefer the longer radius. Important to add however that radius is only one element, flex in my experience is much more critical.

So, if you are thinking about running gates I would definitely steer you away from the 193 Head. If it is just as a high speed groomer ski it could work. Just give yourself enough space