Range Finders for Setting Courses

[L&AirC]

I'm finally going to suck it up and buy a range finder for setting GS. Any recommendations? The prices seem all over the place and I'm trying to figure out if I need the slope compensation or not. I don't think so but since I'll be on a slope I figured I'd ask.

Usually when we set, the person using a RF aims in on the person setting the gate and not the gate and we're setting at 20M +/- a couple meters.

It seems to me I should be looking for one that does Meters, is at least weather resistant, =/- 1M, works in fog. Anything else?

There is a ton of info on Range Finders for golfers and hunters. I'm thinking setting a course is in the middle. The hunter ones are less expensive and don't have slope compensation (at least the ones I looked at).

Thanks,
Ken

 

[hbear]

No slope compensation needed unless you plan to fire a projectile and need the adjustment factor.

Any range finder will work for course setting, just needs to function in the cold and would be nice if it had the ability to shoot in rain/snow (most do) so it can deal with the scatter from the snow.

Smaller is nicer as it’s easier to handle and fit in your pocket.

Most all can adjust meters/yards.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Agree with hbear. No fancy extras required on them. I think I picked mine up fo ~ $100 and it has worked well. i will need to check what brand it is but compact enough plus still able to use with a glove on if required.

Yes, it is quite difficult to home in on a single gate, it is easier if you have set the panel at the same time or get the gate bitch to stay one gate up from you. In fog/high vapor, it gets tougher as you get a lot of refraction/reflection (or whatever) regardless of how good the RF is.

 

[BGreen]

Features are bad. You are looking for the most basic model you can get that is accurate and precise to 0.5m so you have a little leeway if it’s off and you can set maximum. Slope compensation will eff you up. What this means is if you are setting to 25m, when you range uphill will read 25 when it’s actually 15, and when you range downhill it will read 25 when it’s really 35. The next problem is too easily switching between yards and meters.

So here’s a quick overview, with no promise that this is correct:
Golf means foreground objects are given priority over background objects. This is probably good because it means the gate is given priority over the net.
Hunting means background objects are given priority. This means they are less likely to get confused by fog, blowing snow.
Pin seeker is irrelevant.
Arc compensation means you will set illegal courses without knowing.
Most higher end rangefinders have a 6x magnification factor. This means that the gate fills more of viewfinder and you know you are measuring distance to the gate and not something else.
Lower end rangefinders have a 4x magnification factor. This means you can actually find the gate without searching for it. Remember that these units are really designed to range something 100m away, and we are using it for 20-60m. If you predominantly set speed, go 6x. If you predominately set GS, go 4x.

So what do you need/what’s important:
Decimal readout. The Bushnells that round up at the half meter and display the full meter are crap. This is what I have.
1/2m accuracy
Water resistant
Inexpensive (don’t buy one you can’t afford to replace). If you can’t afford to replace it, but a hard case like the Lowepro Santiago
If you set in the dark, you need a red or backlit display. Black on black is hard to read.
Fast response, fast startup. You never have much time to set a second run, and if you only have a two-hour lane spending an extra 20 seconds ranging each gate is a big deal.

If you’ve never used a rangefinder before, try to borrow. All the brands work a little differently. If you are just looking for a no-brainer recommendation, it’s hard to go wrong with a Nikon Acculon or Coolshot. I personally prefer the Bushnell units because they seem a little faster to use, the bottom line units have all the features you need and service takes about three weeks. If you are a hunter or golfer, buy a rangefinder that will be useful for that since course setting is not very demanding.

 

[L&AirC]

Awesome info and BGreen I appreciate the detail and explanations - Thanks. I was pretty sure the slope feature wasn’t needed because without a range finder, you measure with a tape - point to point.

I was flipping coins on the background or foreground priority. Some call the latter Target priority. I think though since it’s usually such a short distance, snow shouldn’t interfere that much. I think I’ll pay attention to which it is, but not make it a hard criteria.

Thanks for bringing up the night setting ability. I don’t typically set at night but would be fun to check the set for Beer League set now and again. It isn’t impossible I might end up helping them set now and again either. We do end up setting races early sometimes early season and can be very low light.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[ScotsSkier]

Here is the one I have, I have not had any issues with it (apart from fog of course!) and for ~$100 I cant complain I dont set at night but not been an issue setting early loads in half light

 

[L&AirC]

Here is the one I have, I have not had any issues with it (apart from fog of course!) and for ~$100 I cant complain I dont set at night but not been an issue setting early loads in half light


View attachment 46772 View attachment 46773

Thanks. This one is actually on my short list. Looking at reviews from Amazon, tectectec has the highest review count and the majority positive. The also offer more support if you buy direct from them and it is the same price.

 

[BGreen]

Get the Nikon. It’s pretty much industry standard in ski racing.

 

[Lifer]

Y'all do yourselves a favor and establish a 25m target to calibrate your range finders. Check it often. Multiple instruments on the hill will show up to 3m differences between them per shot. Consistency of the individual finders is not the issue; variance from one to another is the norm.

USSS setting rules based on distances, not % of vertical make the calibration more critical. Have seen full course resets required (at championship level) due to miscalibration.

If you're tool is off by a meter or two, no problem. Adjust accordingly on each shot you take.

 

[BGreen]

Y'all do yourselves a favor and establish a 25m target to calibrate your range finders.

That’s a great idea. Mine just came back from getting recalibrated. I heard a TD say he measured some gates at a certain distance, I beamed them and came up with a different number. For the past few months my courses looked a little tight for the distance I thought I was setting. Before that it was just erratic.

 

[L&AirC]

That’s a great idea. Mine just came back from getting recalibrated. I heard a TD say he measured some gates at a certain distance, I beamed them and came up with a different number. For the past few months my courses looked a little tight for the distance I thought I was setting. Before that it was just erratic.

We ran into this as well with one of the coaches RFs. We used a tape on a couple gates to see what the delta was and continued setting with that in mind. I think the way to do this as mentioned by Lifer, set a known distance and check before your start, or set a gate or two with a tape and then beam them.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Definitely calibrate and re-calibrate rangefinders. They are awesome, but they are tech that is old and prone to some drift in accuracy.

I have a Bushnell as my backup, a Nikon like the one pictured above as my primary. I also have a 30m tape because... well, I like to look like a mechanic on the hill.

 

[sparty]

One of my coworkers got a new Sig-Sauer rangefinder near the end of year. I don't recall the model, but one huge difference in usability from the older Nikon he had been using was the speed of update—it made it really obvious when you moved off the panel to the guy standing 0.5m above it, and it was much more consistent reading panels and displayed to at least 0.5m.

Checking calibration is a very good point, especially if you're setting or refereeing a higher-level event. I've seen a 3m difference between two rangefinders at 27m, which is pretty big...especially when the one reading 27m was used by the course setter and the one reading 30m is used by the referee.

 

[sparty]

One of my coworkers got a new Sig-Sauer rangefinder near the end of year. I don't recall the model, but one huge difference in usability from the older Nikon he had been using was the speed of update—it made it really obvious when you moved off the panel to the guy standing 0.5m above it, and it was much more consistent reading panels and displayed to at least 0.5m.

Checking calibration is a very good point, especially if you're setting or refereeing a higher-level event. I've seen a 3m difference between two rangefinders at 27m, which is pretty big...especially when the one reading 27m was used by the course setter and the one reading 30m is used by the referee.

 

[L&AirC]

I've still in the research mode and have found so many choices out there it's almost overwhelming. For the prices most are running now (Nikon Aculon is $135 IIRC), TecTecTec has a new release this year (ProWild 2) for $149 and has a +/- .3M accuracy. Though not as popular as Nikon or Bushnell, they have a ton more positive reviews than the rest. The ProWild has a +/- 1M but also does speed that the ProWild 2 doesn't do.

I found one reasonably priced one that would work good in low light. Its a Halo XRT (or something close to that) RF for hunting and instead of black font is red. The issue with this one is it is only in yards as far as I can tell. Planning on calling them today to find out. I don't remember the price but if I was looking at it, it wasn't far from the Aculon.

 

[razie]

Just don't get too caught up in measuring and aiming and miss the forest for the trees, i.e. forget to use the hill. For GS I find that's often more important than a precise distance.

Also, distance is really only relevant in relation to the offset and turn shape and rangefinders won't measure offset (although I guess theoretically it could) nor help you avoid having to reset half a course because you were talking instead of paying attention and ended up putting the forerunners in the net... the coffee thermos makes a big difference that early - just how I prioritize my pocket space .

 

[ScotsSkier]

Just don't get too caught up in measuring and aiming and miss the forest for the trees, i.e. forget to use the hill. For GS I find that's often more important than a precise distance.

Also, distance is really only relevant in relation to the offset and turn shape and rangefinders won't measure offset (although I guess theoretically it could) nor help you avoid having to reset half a course because you were talking instead of paying attention and ended up putting the forerunners in the net... the coffee thermos makes a big difference that early - just how I prioritize my pocket space .

agreed, but remember USSA rules now for U19 and under specify min/max distances rather than VD/DC specs so you cant totally disregard this. And in some cases the hill may force you to go lower on distance . For next season USSA Masters ill also be changing form VD/DC (same as FIS) to specs with min/max distances. Fortunately we were able to make the min/max distances more conducive to Masters racers than the U19 distances! so in effect a lot of our course sets will remain similar to previous regs

 

[L&AirC]

In my typical fashion I considered all posts and recommendations, narrowed it down to two and then did something completely different. I narrowed it down to the TecTecTec ProWild 2 (for hunting) because is has a .3 Meter tolerance and was in budget range (less than $150) and the company's line as a whole seems solid and have high reviews, and the Aculon because it seems to be the standard among coaches and was in budget as well.

Then when I finally decided to pull the trigger, I saw on Amazon from LaserWorks a refurbished one marked down from $255 to $160 and it has everything I want but know that some of my wants have nothing to do with Racing/Coaching. A little more than budget but all the other ones had trade off and I would be settling and would have one that would do everything but a feature I would want now and again. Either didn't do fog or low light or the font was going to be an issue.

1M accuracy
Fog setting
Speed (because it might be fun)
Meter or Yards in Distance
Height Measurement (Meters or Feet - which I want to see which trees can land on the house as one did this winter)
Night vision (setting night courses - and checking the wildlife in the tree lines - I live in the country and have to take the dogs out at night)
4X zoom (I wanted 6X but don't need it for setting)
Adjustable brightness
Adjustable eyepiece to accommodate vision issues like needing reading glasses
It's butt ugly and looks like a toy so no one will want it.
The ability to toggle through several different colors of font; white, yellow, red, black, blue & green.

There are a few other abilities I haven't quite figured out yet. Because it was refurbished, there isn't an owners manual but I'm working on getting one. Easy enough to use as I was able to do all types of things by just mashing buttons to see what happened. Take 4 double As. Is supposed to last 2 hours of continuous use.

Aside from being butt ugly, it is bigger than I was wanting but nothing that can't be hung from the neck or kept in a pocket. The buttons seem easy enough to use with gloves on. Will be a while before I can opcheck it in the cold.

This is what I mean about it being butt ugly. It comes in all black as well but none in refurbished when I purchased it.

This is the amazon write up:

• The Super Clear: 200m night-vision scope with ultra-clear imaging,provide you excellent night vision.4-500m Laser Rangefinder,Optical amplification system using 6x32 and 4X Digital Magnification.
• The Industry-leading Tecnology: With integrated laser rangefinder,digital night vision,digital compass,pitch angle measurement,pressure measurement,temperature measurement in one.
• The Superior Functional: Measure distance, speed, Small target locking, fog mode,Angle measurement,Height measurement,Horizontal distance measurement.
• The Button Auxiliary Lighting: For easy to use in enviroments and to prevent others found. The backlight can be opened, when product down wardly >45 and press any key.
• The Full Package: Includes Quality Bag, Strap and Microfiber Cloth + 30 Day Money Back Guarantee + 1 YEAR Manufacturer Warranty

Ken

 

[sparty]

Bumping this for 2019. Are there any sub-meter-accurate (0.5m would be good, 0.3m even better), sub-$150 rangefinders out there? Most of the Amazon listings seem to be +/- 1M and many of them are also described as "dim", which doesn't really work if you've got a first-run set to do by headlamp. As much as I'd love to just suck it up and buy a premium one for more money, I'm quite sure my wife would veto that idea.