Eleeski

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Well, funny thing happened. In a poignant demonstration of the wisdom offered in the original (non FIS) slalom ski review... when I was going to move my bindings I noticed one of my shovels had started delaminating. So, no test of the mounting position change, but I’ll be moving to the RD this week and I’m really looking forward to how they perform.
Those skis are shot. They sound dangerous. Send them to me to deal with properly. (I still have plenty of epoxy left after fixing the UCLA waterski team's jump skis).

add tigershark camber.jpg

Not the waterskis but a different interesting project.

Eric
 
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ScotsSkier

ScotsSkier

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Love the RD!

Seriously, trained last night, and on a couple warm up runs I could tell it was a little stiffer than the non FIS, and that it didn't pull you into the top of the turn as much. But overall, I was a little surprised it didn't seem all that much different. In the course though, with fairly hard snow last night, night and day better. I could really pressure it and it would hold, even after the course had gotten good and scraped out. The more I put into it, the better it performed, it would return energy and I could carve above the fall line. The tails are't very stiff, can't spend time back there, but you can ski the middle of the ski.

Love the RD...
Yes! When I switched to teh Head from Blizzard, it felt like it did not turn in as well in free skiing but in the course it is a different animal and it really likes to find teh fall line, making it quicker...
 

Viking9

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Had my new 18 Hero ST’S 172 out for the first time at Mammoth today , our first trip of the year, conditions were great of course some new snow with moguls forming. I always bring two pairs with the 98 Twin tip Scimitars in the locker and while heading to the lifts I could hear them slamming the door of my locker trying to get out , for me it was definitely a fatty day but there was no chance of me not being on the new ones.
The ST’S were awesome, they definitely don’t like the back seat which is an adjustment for my style, l like to be middle back and force rebound which they were perfect for but you can’t cross the line or you have to throw in a skid to get right again.
My two ski carve turns were brilliant and the faster I went the more the ski turned into a true athlete.
Now I do have a small issue to fix and that is the # 3 I have on the sides ( I purposely went .5 and 3 to see how I would like it).
The newness and the tune are perfect for a two ski carve only problem is that’s not me, I’m a mogul and chopped up guy and the 3 just wants to do its job and hang in there but I like to get off that edge quicker and force the ski the other way si I’m going to see if the boys can put a two on it in the morning.
The ski made some great turns today and I’m really happy with them, probably have too get some fresh wax for the twins though and get back on there good sides, it truly was a twin tip day!
 

silverback

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I'm thinking it is time for new FIS slaloms and it has been a couple years since I've demoed. @ScotsSkier. Should we start a new thread for those?
 
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ScotsSkier

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Given the low snow year in tahoe, it has been hard getting hold of new stuff to test. Currently though I am super impressed with the Rossi fis slalom. Next year's keeps the same dimensions but has a new, R22, plate
 

otisshirley

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I’m curious about slalom ski lengths. I’m 5’8”, 140 pounds, and I just bought a pair of non-FIS slaloms (the Rossignol Hero Elite ST Ti) in 162. I chose 162 because that’s what I demoed, and I demoed it because it’s the second-shortest length, which is usually good for me, and it’s already 5-11 cm shorter than my other skis. I don’t race; these are just for fun.

BUT: I read that world-class female slalom skiers (who are probably at least twice as strong as I am) use 155s, and I read somewhere on here that they would go even shorter if the rules allowed. Does that mean that I should have gone as short as I could? Or is there something fundamentally different about FIS slalom skis (much, much stiffer?) that makes a shorter length appropriate for them (and a longer length appropriate for non-FIS slalom skis)? Or do racers want the shortest possible length because the turns on a race course are so much tighter than what most of us ski for fun?
 

François Pugh

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FIS course sets and equipment rules are designed to make it more difficult for the racers in order to separate the field (too many ties at 0.01 second timing). Also racers are willing to put up with the cons of too short a ski if the pros get them the win. The FIS skis are stiffer.

You got the correct length.
 

John Baumer

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I feel the need to add to this discussion. This thread got me thinking more about getting the right 13M SL ski. Even though I already have the Stöckli Laser SL [14.5 TR], I went after a 13R to add to the quiver. Several years ago I had the Fischer RC4 SC and really enjoyed it. That's where I started my search. The ski did not seem by appearance to be the equal of my old SC. This lead me to take a serious look at the FIS version. Based on my extreme size, I chose the FIS version. The cost difference wasn't huge. and it seemed like a lot more ski. The SC has a 12 DIN system binding vs. the FIS version, a 17 DIN binding [optional] on a race plate. The FIS version has turned out to be a fantastically fun ski, not at all like the Head FIS that I tried before. The Fischer is MUCH more versatile and enjoyable to use as a short radius free ski. In addition, the quality of the FIS version is outstanding. I can actually ski this thing for a fair part of the day and not be spent. My point is that in search of a slalom carver, not all of the FIS skis are off the table.
 

dropd9

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I'm thinking it is time for new FIS slaloms and it has been a couple years since I've demoed. @ScotsSkier. Should we start a new thread for those?
I would love to read ^this^ if possible...for FIS GS's as well. Hopefully there are a couple of members such as @ScotsSkier who have had the opportunity to try many/most of these and would like to share more info. It's brutally impossible to find much review info on FIS skis, and almost as difficult for demo opportunities.
 

James

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The FIS version has turned out to be a fantastically fun ski, not at all like the Head FIS that I tried before. The Fischer is MUCH more versatile and enjoyable to use as a short radius free ski. In addition, the quality of the FIS version is outstanding. I can actually ski this thing for a fair part of the day and not be spent. My point is that in search of a slalom carver, not all of the FIS skis are off the table.
It's possible this is due to mount point. A few years ago I was tuning skis with a college racer. We had a pair of the Heads and Blizzzrds set against the wall. The difference in toe binding position was quite large, like 3/4 inch or 2 cm. I don't remember which was which, but that's big on a short ski.

As to your other points, totally agree. I sometimes wonder why people bother with non fis slaloms. Rec slaloms can get bloated tips and excessive sidecuts which I think makes them less versatile.
One reason for a Stöckli fis sl is they have thicker edges so it should last longer. Never tried one though.
 

tlougee

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I am looking for recommendations for a Race Stock Slalom ski. I am currently considering either the Atomic S9 or the Völkl. My primary objective is to purchase a ski with the best edge hold and enough edge to last many seasons of skiing and tuning. I have a 10 year old World Cup Völkl SL ski that I skied for years and really liked. It looks just like the race stock version but wasn't. I also have an old pair ( probably about 10 years old ) of Nordica race stock Slalom skis that weigh a ton and have enough metal in them and the bindings to build a small bridge. They are very damp, have great edge hold, and blast through crud like crazy but my son has taken possession of them. I am currently skiing a race stock Blizzard that is about 5 years old and has almost no edge left after only 3 grinds and only diamond stones for touch ups. They are pretty decent, but I don't want to buy another ski with really skinny edges like those ones. Any input would be appreciated.
 

Don'tfit

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This is fun stuff but indeed a slippery slope. Where did the term "cheater ski" come from? Low radius "cheater GS" skis leave you with too much dead time on a course and "cheater SL" skis by and large carry a largish 13meter radius in 165cm length leaving you to easily get later and later. I do not understand how this benefits. Buy the real deal as you will likely end up there in the future as you follow the addiction of performance.
 

Tom K.

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This is fun stuff but indeed a slippery slope. Where did the term "cheater ski" come from? Low radius "cheater GS" skis leave you with too much dead time on a course and "cheater SL" skis by and large carry a largish 13meter radius in 165cm length leaving you to easily get later and later. I do not understand how this benefits. Buy the real deal as you will likely end up there in the future as you follow the addiction of performance.
This topic always seems to come up over and over. Kind of like what edge bevel you like. The racers I know would cheerfully take more sidecut than the FIS allows. That is why the FIS has a minimum spec, not maximum. AFAIK, you're welcome to show up with 38m slalom skis, if that's your thing.

And most of the non-FIS slalom skis are at least a bit softer than their FIS brethren. Having skied both, I found the non-FIS version more accessible at lower speeds, and just a lot more fun as an all around carving machine.

To each their own.
 

ski otter 2

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I average more than 100 days a year, recently. Lack of skiing is mostly not one of my problems.

A "cheater" is a ski that is not built to FIS race specs, that makes either SL dynamics turns (short turns), or GS dynamics turns (longer), easier; and thus has a longer turn radius for SL versions, or a shorter turn radius for GS versions, often. It is also likely to have a bit softer flex, for the same purpose; with a shorter turn radius, in the case of the GS versions, so the skier needs less space moving down the hill. Some folks use these skis just recreationally, because they like the roller coaster, precise feel of race skis made more easy and practical for non-competitive skiing. Others use these skis for beer league or club racing; but this is probably a secondary use, mostly. Such skis are very popular and mainstream in Europe - available as rentals there routinely. They are relatively scarce in this country. Brands often don't bother to market them here.

I prefer the GS dynamics, and the corresponding cheater skis: great in 175, 178, 180, 182, 183 and 185 lengths, mostly with shorter radii than race skis would have at corresponding lengths. (I like and own the FIS skis too.)
 
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Don'tfit

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Thanks skotter. I could see the use of a shorter radius gs ski when mixing it up on the hill outside of a closed course.
 

oldschoolskier

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There is variance in stiffness on the FIS skis within brands and from brand to brand. The biggest difference between FIS and non FIS is predictability, consistency and stability in performance.

On SL I’d go FIS over cheaters, GS it’s a little more of a toss up as the the forgiveness built into cheaters may be what’s key. Me personally FIS GS, but I appreciate the difference.
 

Tom K.

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1. A "cheater" is a ski that is not built to FIS race specs, that makes either SL dynamics turns (short turns), or GS dynamics turns (longer), easier; and thus has a longer turn radius for SL versions, or a shorter turn radius for GS versions, often. It is also likely to have a bit softer flex, for the same purpose; with a shorter turn radius, in the case of the GS versions, so the skier needs less space moving down the hill.

2. Some folks use these skis just recreationally, because they like the roller coaster, precise feel of race skis made more easy and practical for non-competitive skiing.
1. My head slaloms (Non-FIS) have a slightly shorter radius than the FIS versions (and are softer).

2. YES! EXACTLY! For me anyway. :beercheer:
 

François Pugh

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FIS sets courses to challenge what the skiers can do with their equipment in order to separate the field. One way in which they do that is make the turns so tight that it is extremely difficult to carve arc-2-arc all the way down the course while making all the gates. The racers have to stupid human tricks and use all their skills to achieve the best time down the course. You could cheat and use a ski with a smaller radius, or one that was easier to bend into a tight curve, i.e. use a cheater ski. They make cheater SL skis with an 11 m radius, and cheater GS skis with an 18 m radius. Of course using that cheater ski could be scary unstable at speed and ineficient for carving longer radius turns on the course, but the racers I'm sure would put up with that.

For small hills where SL turns predominate I prefer a Fischer WC SC, same 13 m radius as the SL, but with a bit softer flex. At my weight, I would have to always ski at SL race speeds to really enjoy a FIS ski, and I sometimes ski at less than full SL racing speed. I would find a turn radius of less than 13 m too limiting for smooth clean carving at higher speeds; 13-m is limiting enough (that's why I have other skis).

If you are skiing in wide open spaces and prefer more speed to more turns and don't have to make the gates, then sure get a full-on FIS GS (or a SG if speed's your thing). Most folk don't ski primarily above 50 mph most of the time, so they are better off with a softer turnier ski that a 35 m FIS GS.
 
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ScotsSkier

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Bear in mind that there is often some misuse of the term cheater with GS skis. The “ cheater” GS is normally an 18-19 m radius and typically not the same quality/mix of construction as the real FIS GS ski. Recently however some people have also been using cheater to describe the ~25m masters, or “ tweener” GS skis ( for U16s) which have a much closer relationship to the real FIS ski (and are sometimes described as “FIS” skis). These are proper race skis, unlike the cheater 19m skis

While we are on this topic, watch this space for upcoming reports on some exciting new race skis......:popcorn: coming in......:rolleyes:
 

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