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Teppaz

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Weird stuff happened in the Wengen DH. Bailet crashed and was gathering his skis when we saw another guy start. It didn't look like Bailet had cleared the course but the next guy was coming down anyway. Then Buzzi crashed in the finish area but again the next guy started.
Both times it looked as if officials didn't interrupt the race. Is that normal? I was watching the Snow Pass feed so had no commentary. It looks like the two skiers who'd started were made to stop and got encore runs . How do you even stop someone going full speed on that course? Was that the Wengen officials messing up?
 

Primoz

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First, there's different start intervals through the start list. For Wengen it was 1-20 2min 40sec, 21-30 2min, after 31 1min 15sec. When race is 2min 30sec long, it means after no.21 there's (at least) 2 racers on course at same time. When someone crashes lower down, second racer which already started is flagged and taken back to start (free heli ride in Wengen for this case), and once back on start he is allowed to start as soon as possible, that's why you can have sometimes someone with number 25 starting just before number 37 :) Nothing unusual and it's happening pretty much every race. What you see on tv, is reply of start, so even if racer crashed, that guy didn't just started 10sec later, but was on course for a minute or more already.
And to how to stop someone? There are predefined yellow flag zones. In Wengen there's 5 of them, and when someone needs to be stoped there guy waiving yellow flag on middle of the course, so there's really no way racer could miss him :) But of course it doesn't need to be said that this doesn't happen under jump or in blind corner, but somewhere relatively flat and open, so it's not really much chances for something bad to happen.
And really for last question, noone messed up anything it went by protocol, and exactly as it's planned to go in such cases.
 
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Teppaz

Teppaz

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Cool, thanks for explaining. It seemed unlikely someone would have messed up considering the course's speed and danger — not being aware of the rules/protocol and without a commentary, I just couldn't figure out what was going on.
 

Chef23

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I was wondering how that guy did when he re-ran. He was having a pretty good run for his bib number I understand what happened and why but it seemed like it disrupted a good run for him.
 

Primoz

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I admit I have no idea who was stopped or anything, but realistically there's no way to have good "second" run. First, your good race skis are gone, so you will start with second pair (let's hope your serviceman has second race pair with him on start... not so obvious thing as someone might think). Then, you will start some 5, but most likely 10 racers behind, so course is in most cases worse then it would be on real start number. And last, but probably most important, two things, you are not warmed up perfectly anymore. You got ride back to start on ski doo or in heli, but only with jacket or rain coat one of nearby coaches gave to you... his not your spare one. On start you have very short time to get composed and focused again, so no time for starting real before start warming up procedure. And you just did quarter, half or even more of DH race like 5min ago, so your legs are anything but fresh.
So in most cases, you will do much worse then you would otherwise.
 

Chef23

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I admit I have no idea who was stopped or anything, but realistically there's no way to have good "second" run. First, your good race skis are gone, so you will start with second pair (let's hope your serviceman has second race pair with him on start... not so obvious thing as someone might think). Then, you will start some 5, but most likely 10 racers behind, so course is in most cases worse then it would be on real start number. And last, but probably most important, two things, you are not warmed up perfectly anymore. You got ride back to start on ski doo or in heli, but only with jacket or rain coat one of nearby coaches gave to you... his not your spare one. On start you have very short time to get composed and focused again, so no time for starting real before start warming up procedure. And you just did quarter, half or even more of DH race like 5min ago, so your legs are anything but fresh.
So in most cases, you will do much worse then you would otherwise.

This was my thought it seems like it would be almost impossible to have a run as good as the one underway unless the skier made a massive mistake somewhere on the way down. I don't remember who was waived off or I would check.
 

Muleski

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I suspect that one of Primoz's key points is that "getting flagged" is something that happens, and has happened to everybody who has raced speed at every level. It's just part of the drill. For every time that you get flagged and waived off the course, you may have crashed and caused others to get flagged. It happens. With TV, as Primoz notes, it's a lot less obvious. And he is right on the mark about why it does pretty much suck to get flagged. No chance of skiing as well. None. You're cold, you have no faith in your skis, and on and on. it's part of the sport, and not very visible to many.

If you ever have the pleasure of running a speed camp for young racers getting their first exposure to very gentle SG, maybe U14 age, the busiest people on your course crew will be the ones waiving those flags!

My kids have both, as older racers, been flagged when they had the fastest times, by far, on the upper splits of the courses. And their second runs....way back. Of course they had no helicopter to get to the start. Hey.....it happens! Another learning lesson in the sport!
 

Jack skis

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And then there's the times you flag yourself in effect. When the course worker wanders onto the course leaving you with no choice but to stop or ski off course and start yelling for a rerun from the course officials. In the relatively low level racing I was involved in once in awhile a skier or boarder or two would sometime appear out of the woods onto the course bringing things to a screening halt, and causing a rerun for someone. Of course when something like this happens, just as in WC racing, the racer is put at a great disadvantage, the technical term for which is screwed.
 

sparty

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If you ever have the pleasure of running a speed camp for young racers getting their first exposure to very gentle SG, maybe U14 age, the busiest people on your course crew will be the ones waiving those flags!

And a 45-second start interval seems like an eternity until you're trying to decide "crap, do we need to flag the next one, or not?" when it's not immediately clear if the crashed racer will need assistance or be able to clear the track in time. No one wants to screw up that next racer's day, but you also know you have to put risk mitigation first if there's any question.
 

Tom Holtmann

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I admit I have no idea who was stopped or anything, but realistically there's no way to have good "second" run. First, your good race skis are gone, so you will start with second pair (let's hope your serviceman has second race pair with him on start... not so obvious thing as someone might think). Then, you will start some 5, but most likely 10 racers behind, so course is in most cases worse then it would be on real start number. And last, but probably most important, two things, you are not warmed up perfectly anymore. You got ride back to start on ski doo or in heli, but only with jacket or rain coat one of nearby coaches gave to you... his not your spare one. On start you have very short time to get composed and focused again, so no time for starting real before start warming up procedure. And you just did quarter, half or even more of DH race like 5min ago, so your legs are anything but fresh.
So in most cases, you will do much worse then you would otherwise.
When you say your skis are gone does that mean that the wax/tune is spent and you are better off using your second pair or that they physically don't make it back up to the run with you during the transport? Surely a stupid question but wondering.
 

hbear

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Mainly the prep that went into the ski.....gone as all the work, overlays, etc. are toast. So having to re-run puts the racer at a disadvatage as the skis won't be running as quick anymore given all the juice and love have been worn off.

As for time at the start, you can technicaly take as much time as needed to "get ready" but as each racer heads down the course, you are faced with a progressivly slower and worsening track.
 

Primoz

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When you say your skis are gone does that mean that the wax/tune is spent and you are better off using your second pair or that they physically don't make it back up to the run with you during the transport? Surely a stupid question but wondering.
Sorry for my English... once again :) When skis are ready for race, they are ready for single run, then they need to be prepared again. From wax to edges. Sure when you get delivered to start, you get delivered with skis, but after you made down half the race (plus/minus whatever it is, before you got stopped) those skis are nowhere near race ready conditions. So that's reason to pick different pair, as with original pair, you wouldn't stand a chance, even if everyone would be running in snow storm and you would be running in perfect sunny conditions :)
 

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