quiverkillers, or binding freedom

[Philpug]

Right, or demo bindings.
Either is much easier than being enslaved to unscrewing, losing a screw, having to use locktite on the screw, blah blah blah.

Maybe try a few first?

I agree on the use of demo bindings as a viable option especially now that the current generation of demo bindings are so much better in performance and many are even toolless in design.

 

[Eric@ict]

Im digging the hotdog machine, its 107f here. I am no means an expert swapping bindings out seems like PIA at the hill. I like the demo idea. Slide on and off and adjustable.

 

[David Chaus]

I agree on the use of demo bindings as a viable option especially now that the current generation of demo bindings are so much better in performance and many are even toolless in design.

It’d be so awesome if they sold demo binding tracks separately, but alas.....

 

[MacO512]

Yes, a pain to install, but if your setup for it, probably not so bad. Be sure to gett a counter sink to take the burr off with metal top sheet skis, can even be by hand tool.

The switching thing I never did. I thought I would, but for the usual resort skiing it’s just frankly ridiculous. I thought travel...but I started to go to Switzerland without skis. That’s easier, lol.
I suppose if I had five pairs with Pivot 18’s instead of two, I might reconsider.

It did make it easy to remove shims on the toe. I went to a shop in Chamonix. The guy refused to believe I had machine screws in there with inserts. “Yes, I did it myself...” Didn’t believe me! More the customer is always a moron,

The reason he didn’t believe it is the screws they use don’t look like flat head binding screws like the BF’s or the QQ’s. They get sort of round/pan head screws. Can’t remember if they’re even Pozi, I’d have to look. Not nearly as nice,

I think because there’s a tariff on screws and the like. They complained about the quality of threaded star inserts they got for boot work also.

But, they’re pretty regularly used in Chamonix. A lot of the guides travel in spring and need to save room in the trunk or ski bag I guess.

(I honestly don’t know which I used, unfortunately, a disastrous mix. The insert was 1mm longer than the bit, not pretty on the bottom of the ski. Nothing a base grind couldn’t fix.)

But, you sound like you may be in the 1/2 percent group. It may make sense. At least for not buying so many bindings.
With that many bindings I’d get a dedicated jig, not one of those modular things. Way too easy to mess up with those. Takes too much time constantly checking too. Trust me, especially if the skis are well cambered.

This is a very good summary of advantages/disadvantages to using BF (Binding Freedom) threaded inserts.

I think I'll mount my recently purchased skis conventionally and just see how that works for now. Its only a Marker Griffon binding I'm going to use - can get another one for ~$150 on sale if I really need another down the road.

Maybe I eventually want to switch to a different binding and that would have different holes. If that happens it would be better to then plug the smaller holes of a conventional binding install vs having larger unused threaded inserts.

The big advantage to using BF is if I want to remove the binding and later re-use those prior mount holes. That could be the case from wanting to swap binding to multiple skis, pack ski for travel without binding, or to have two mount points front and back on one ski. If I get to where I want to go that route I can just then install the threaded insert, since it would involve just drilling out the conventional mount holes slightly larger.

So I think thats my plan of just doing a conventional binding install for now.... although my future ski gear plans seem to wildly change every few days....

 

[James]

If I get to where I want to go that route I can just then install the threaded insert, since it would involve just drilling out the conventional mount holes slightly larger.

Just make sure to use a jig and get the larger holes drilled right. Even then that takes sinething to line it up. Doing it freehand could make a big mess.

 

[SlideWright]

The insert installation tool in the video in the binding template thread is based on the jam nut method for installation and removal for either the BF or QK inserts. For the BF inserts, you'll need an 8mm slot head if you want to go that route.

 

[MacO512]

Just make sure to use a jig and get the larger holes drilled right. Even then that takes sinething to line it up. Doing it freehand could make a big mess.

Oh for sure, I'd lay it out perfect and use a drill press.

Yeah it would probably be easier and quicker to do the insert drilling from the get go with a pilot hole then 6.5mm bit. If I drill out a prior conventional binding install I'll have to take more time to get it perfectly lined up over that larger hole. I'll test on scrap wood first.

 

[tomahawkins]

You know, if you need or want to take a binding off and put it back on every now and then, there are other options besides inserts. You just need a screwdriver...

 

[MacO512]

You know, if you need or want to take a binding off and put it back on every now and then, there are other options besides inserts. You just need a screwdriver...

You mean reusing prior mount holes? My understanding is they will never hold as well as the initial install.

 

[tomahawkins]

You mean reusing prior mount holes? My understanding is they will never hold as well as the initial install.

That's what they say. Yet I do it all the time and have never had a pull out.

Conceptually, why would repeated threading and unthreading deteriorate thread integrity? As long as you're not cross threading or over torquing, there's little impact.

 

[MacO512]

That's what they say. Yet I do it all the time and have never had a pull out.

Conceptually, why would repeated threading and unthreading deteriorate thread integrity? As long as you're not cross threading or over torquing, there's little impact.

When screws go into wood they crush fibers that lock the screw into position. Try drilling a screw into and out of the same piece of wood a dozen times - it won't hold as well. Yes many skis have metal topsheets but they have wood or other materials in the core that the screw grips. The metal is also very thin - nothing like a bolt.

You very well might be able to repeatedly use old mount holes dozens of times with no issue. I had two bindings tear out in the last two months which beyond sucked so I won't be making that gamble on my skis.

It sounds like you tap all your holes so perhaps that also improves the re-usability. Maybe the topsheet is basically turned into an ultra thin bolt.

 

[tomahawkins]

When screws go into wood they crush fibers that lock the screw into position. Try drilling a screw into and out of the same piece of wood a dozen times - it won't hold as well. Yes many skis have metal topsheets but they have wood or other materials in the core that the screw grips. The metal is also very thin - nothing like a bolt.

You very well might be able to repeatedly use old mount holes dozens of times with no issue. I had two bindings tear out in the last two months which beyond sucked so I won't be making that gamble on my skis.

It sounds like you tap all your holes so perhaps that also improves the re-usability. Maybe the topsheet is basically turned into an ultra thin bolt.

If you put a dab of epoxy each time, it builds up a nice plastic housing. But I've stopped gluing also.

 

[Scruffy]

When screws go into wood they crush fibers that lock the screw into position. Try drilling a screw into and out of the same piece of wood a dozen times - it won't hold as well. Yes many skis have metal topsheets but they have wood or other materials in the core that the screw grips. The metal is also very thin - nothing like a bolt.

You very well might be able to repeatedly use old mount holes dozens of times with no issue. I had two bindings tear out in the last two months which beyond sucked so I won't be making that gamble on my skis.

It sounds like you tap all your holes so perhaps that also improves the re-usability. Maybe the topsheet is basically turned into an ultra thin bolt.

I have removed bindings without inserts many a time and then remounted in the same hole. I recently did it on a fly to ski trip. I needed to take three pairs of skis in a double ski bag. Two pairs where mounted for Look Pivots ( by me using paper templates with no tap ), and are wood core skis. I could get three pairs in the bag is one pair didn't have bindings. During the trip I swapped the Pivots between two pair of skis several times.

Binding screws are self tapping. If you add a quality wood glue to the mount holes it will saturate the wood core at the threads and harden the threads, and not really stick to the metal screw. The trick when swapping the bindings is not to over torque the screws and crush the threads. Hand tighten till snug is all that is needed.

But I wouldn't recommend it for you since you've had some binding tear out issues and you'd never trust it. I have never had a binding tear out myself.

 

[MacO512]

I have removed bindings without inserts many a time and then remounted in the same hole. I recently did it on a fly to ski trip. I needed to take three pairs of skis in a double ski bag. Two pairs where mounted for Look Pivots ( by me using paper templates with no tap ), and are wood core skis. I could get three pairs in the bag is one pair didn't have bindings. During the trip I swapped the Pivots between two pair of skis several times.

Binding screws are self tapping. If you add a quality wood glue to the mount holes it will saturate the wood core at the threads and harden the threads, and not really stick to the metal screw. The trick when swapping the bindings is not to over torque the screws and crush the threads. Hand tighten till snug is all that is needed.

But I wouldn't recommend it for you since you've had some binding tear out issues and you'd never trust it. I have never had a binding tear out myself.

I'm also 6'3 200lbs decently athletic so perhaps I put a larger load/stress on the screws than others which contributed to a tear out. Not sure I'll ever be able to figure out the cause for sure. I mostly suspect the shop that did the install used the wrong torque, volcanoed, wrong or no glue, large drill bit, or some other error.