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Quiver addition- need a trenching tool to use with family

Ken_R

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I think you might like the Volkl Mantra M5 in 184cm.

Wider than the Brahmas, better edge hold and a bit more capable in softer snow.
 
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MNskier

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I am by no means a rep AND was never a fan of Salomon skis. Until now. They worked just fine on the softer snow too. Waaayyyy better than my Volkls or Rally’s.

Thanks! I wasn't serious about you being a rep, just to be clear.
 

sparty

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FWIW, I think the X9 WB would be exactly the right ski for the use case...in the east. I'm using a pair as general coaching / firm-snow skis and have been quite happy with them, and the loss of quickness edge-to-edge is offset nicely by a little bit of float on softer surfaces or even loose granular.

Western snow is soft enough that I'd expect a skinny all-mountain ski (like the Brahma) to be a good choice, albeit rather skinny if it's the only ski you're bringing to Big Sky. Something 100ish underfoot would be more of my choice if I get to spend your money; from the Atomic line, I'd look at the Vantage 97 for a more aggressive, hard-snow oriented ski and the Bent Chet 100 for a playful, soft-snow oriented ski that should still be fun on Montana groomers and not too painful on your knees. My quiver jumps from the WB to the Bent Chet 120, and those are a bit much if it's a groomer day (they can still fun if I'm actually skiing on at least softish groomers, but trying to do things like snowplow or slide around at low speed is relatively awkward due to their width).
 

Uncle-A

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The Titan is 80 under foot and is very versatile, it does well at different speeds and at your size the 177 CM would fit your needs.
 

trailtrimmer

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Are the kids/family all racers or at least fast skiers? Is it ok if the ski needs a little speed to liven up?
 

martyg

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I can't recommend the AX enough. It is my every day Western teaching ski. With it, I am well equipped regardless if I am in the beginner area, or on the backside with an advanced skier.

In your case, it would give you low speed compliance, high-speed confidence, and be playful enough to allow you pop in and out of pow, trees and bumps when with the family.

I'm 165 in winter. Train / workout / do drills every day / race bikes. 60 years old. I'm on the 175. My next pair will be the shorter iteration.
 

ScottB

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Skier: 230lb, 6'3" former USSA/FIS skier, current weekend instructor/coach, could surely use some more time in the gym

What I'm looking for is a ski to use when skiing with my family "out west" in the spring. realistically when I go to Colorado or Montana with the family I'm going to be spending 90+% of my time on corduroy. Probably in the spring- first week of April is typically when kids get spring break. The S9s are a lot of fun and I don't mind driving them all day, but Ideally for this purpose I think I'd like something with a bit larger radius and a bit wider underfoot (due to the softer snow I"m likely to be using them on). A little versatility in terms of speed and radius would be a good thing, but really they aren't going to go off the groomers much and if there was a significant amount of fresh I'd just pull out the Brahmas.
Any opinions? Thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it!

MN,

I am a little bigger than you, 6'4", 250 and I am also a race coach. I have a decent quiver of skis that are mostly different from each other. I ski in New England, but have traveled out west often.

When you mention spring skiing, it makes me think of soft snow, mashed potatoes, and slush. Also frozen corduroy in the morning. On a typical spring day, I tired my 187cm Brahama, 88mm; a 187 cm Nordica Enforcer, 93mm, and a 185cm Blizzard Cochise, 108mm. The Cochise won the ski off. It was the only skied that stayed on top of the mashed potatoes and was effortless to ski all day long, at any speed. Point being if you are on soft spring snow, groomer or off piste, get some width under you so they stay on top of the snow. You must like to carve based on your background, but you have skis for that and you don't have a ski for deeper soft snow. My motto, "Go West young man, and go wide" I would recommend the Blizzard Bonafide or something 100+ underfoot. You can cruise the groomers effortlessly all day on something like that, and go all over the mtn if you want too.

If you were talking the East, a wide carver would make more sense until it turns to mashed potatoes, when they will get grabby. The only carving ski I have used (and just bought) that doesn't get grabby in spring snow is the Stockli Laser AX. I haven't skied it enough to really give feedback, but it seems to break the mold of what a narrow carver can do (78mm wide)
 

GB_Ski

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If you were talking the East, a wide carver would make more sense until it turns to mashed potatoes, when they will get grabby. The only carving ski I have used (and just bought) that doesn't get grabby in spring snow is the Stockli Laser AX. I haven't skied it enough to really give feedback, but it seems to break the mold of what a narrow carver can do (78mm wide)
Hmm... Laser AX can handle grabby snow? It's hard to me to imagine anything under 82-84mm can handle NE grabby snow. I'm almost tempted to get Liberty V82 or wait for the Evolv84 for those conditions.
 
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MNskier

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So what did you end up trying?!?

Well, I was at a shop the other day getting some boot tweeks done and there was a pair of 176 X9 WBs on clearance. And they were so shiny (and so green)... So I left with them. :) I tried them out today on a local MN hill and they were a blast. Probably my idea of a perfect midwest free ski/teaching ski. The snow was quite soft (in a granular man made way), so I didn't get to try them on really hard snow/ice, but given their Redster basis, I suspect that won't be a problem.

If I were skiing on bigger eastern or probably any western area, I would probably want something with a bit bigger radius (Firebird HRC?), but I'm confident they will be fun for me in those environments as well, especially skiing with my family as I had no issue bending them into nice arcs at what I would call "moderate" speeds. I suspect that would be pretty stable at a bit higher speeds on firmer snow as well, but again I didn't get a chance to evaluate that. I just know my S9s are stable at speeds that I wouldn't expect a SL ski to enjoy.

So, now I have to re-think my quiver goals... see below.
 
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MNskier

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Ok, new quiver goals, in order of width (and intended use):

1) SL and GS skis (for gates, already have a pair of each).

2) X9 WB's (for free skiing and probably any teaching or clinics that doesn't involve gates).

3) 80mm+ Western soft snow groomer trenching tool. For now I'll use the X9 WB's, but I suspect something in the mid 80s would be ideal for what I want out there. I don't think I really like the feel of skis with significant rocker for this purpose. The S/Force Bold at 84 sounds like a good choice. What are the other wider really carve oriented skis out there? There is that new Line Blade at 94- might be interesting.

4) If I had something from choice number 3, I would ideally ditch the Brahmas and get something wider, like 100+. Like a Bonefide or Cochise, Enforcer 100/104, Kore 105, Mantra 102, etc.

So basically that's a three ski quiver (not counting the dedicated race gear). I don't get much opportunity to use a ski from line 4, but I'd just rent and keep an eye out for a deal.

That's my current thinking anyway. Thanks for all the continued input!
 

trailtrimmer

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Ok, new quiver goals, in order of width (and intended use):

4) If I had something from choice number 3, I would ideally ditch the Brahmas and get something wider, like 100+. Like a Bonefide or Cochise, Enforcer 100/104, Kore 105, Mantra 102, etc.

So basically that's a three ski quiver (not counting the dedicated race gear). I don't get much opportunity to use a ski from line 4, but I'd just rent and keep an eye out for a deal.

Armada Tracer 98/108, DPS Wailer 100 RP, Rustler 10, Ripstick 106, etc would fit the bill nicely for a more playful deep snow ski. Your carve game is well covered, but a pop, pivot and smear ski is a hoot in trees and fresh stuff.

Traveling with the X9 and one of the above would cover all your bases staying in resort or side country.
 

DocGKR

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1. Race skis--you have SL & GS
2. Sport Carver--you have the X9 WB
3. 80+ All Mountain--Liberty V82, Stockli AR would be my favorites; you could also look at Volkle Deacon 80, Blizzard Brahma 82, Fischer RC One GT 82, K2 Disruption Ti 82, Head Monster 83, the Salomon S/Force Bold 84 you mentioned, as well as the Kastle MX84 and Renoun Atlas 80.
4. 100+ Soft Snow--Enforcer 104, Ranger 102fr, Mindbender 108ti, Rossi Sender Ti 106, Line Sick Day 104, Liberty Origin 106, J Skis Metal 106, Moment Wildcat 108, ON3P Woodsman 108 would all be fun options.
 

dbostedo

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3) 80mm+ Western soft snow groomer trenching tool. For now I'll use the X9 WB's, but I suspect something in the mid 80s would be ideal for what I want out there. I don't think I really like the feel of skis with significant rocker for this purpose. The S/Force Bold at 84 sounds like a good choice. What are the other wider really carve oriented skis out there?
I demo'ed the Kastle MX84 in the 184 cm length in Jackson Hole a couple of weeks ago and really liked it for a wider carver - it's full camber and 84mm wide. I think I'd have liked one size shorter, but the 184's performed just fine in all the places I took them (groomers and intermediate bumps mostly). I haven't demo'ed too many in this category lately though.

EDIT: There's also the Dynastar SpeedZone 4x4 82 Pro at 82 under foot. I haven't skied it, but loved the other SpeedZone skis I've tried.
 
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MNskier

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I wanted to circle back to this thread for any future readers and update on where I went with this. I was bored this fall with the pandemic and did some shopping online for some slightly used skis...

So I still have a pair of SL and GS skis (Atomic S9 and G9's)

I have the X9 WB's and still think they are just about perfect for free skiing in the midwest. One could argue they are too close to the S9's, and if I still skied like I did when I was 20 I might agree but for me now they are much more pleasant to ski on all day than a true slalom ski. Just a bit more relaxed and easy, but still make some sweet short-medium radius trenches in the 176cm (biggest size).

I got some S/Force Bolds in the biggest size (184cm). Just spent a day on these and they are great fun. I'm going to keep these and they will serve primarily as my "out west" groomer ski. The day I skied them on it was cold (single digits), firm corduroy so I didn't try them on soft snow but for bigger hills I like the longer radius better than the X9 WB's shorter radius, and the extra width should work great in western snow. They are super quiet under foot but still have a nice kick out of the tail! I've seen a review that said they only like to make long radius turns, but I don't agree with that. What I would call medium radius turns are it's bread and butter, no you aren't going to make a pure carve in a slalom radius, but they can make different turn shapes.

I'm selling the Brahmas. I spent some more time on them and while I can see why people would like it as a one-ski quiver, when I'm going to be on groomers I want a more carving oriented ski like the ones above. I still like camber and a stiff tail on groomers, perhaps old school but I am what I am.

I also got a sweet deal on some very slightly used 2020-21 demo Liberty Evolve 100 demos (186cm). I have not skied on them yet, but I will when some softer snow presents itself. For now this will be the other half of my two-ski "out west" traveling quiver (with the Solomons above). I can understand why some would say why not get a less carver oriented ski since you have the solly's. Something like a Ripstick 106 Black, Kore 105, etc. Well, that's a good question and I might end up there. But these were a very good deal and I wanted to try them, also even if there is fresh snow I know I'll still end up on groomers a lot with my family. A mantra 102, Enforcer 100 or Bonefide 97 also interests me in this role. Ski Essentials just had the Ripstick 106 Black editions on sale for a smoking price and I almost bought a pair for the heck of it, but since I haven't even skied on my evolves yet, that seemed more than a bit silly. But I'm still kind of regretting not snagging a pair. :)

So, that's where I am, thanks again for all the input!
 

Jarngreipr

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I'm coming at similar decision making from the other direction. Started with a K2 iKonic 84 as my general purpose "out west" ski (though I use it here in MN - at least until Step 2) and have the X7/X9 on my very-short list for an MN free skiing carver. Glad to see affirmation of the direction I'm headed myself.
 

slowrider

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Thanks Andy!
I can see the 82, but I think the V92 is a probably a bit wider than I need as I don't really see adventuring into the edges much with these.
Why can't someone just follow me around with a quiver so I can decide before each run? Like a golf caddy? :huh::daffy::roflmao:
I am available. Ski wagon included.
20210131_124541.jpg
 

Slim

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@MN skier, when I hear “spring skiing” I do not think of 100% corduroy.
Most of the time in spring, you get ice in the morning, slush lower down in the afternoon, which leads to alternating ice and slush piles on the busier runs.

Seems like the Bonafide where made for that?

If you do find pure corduroy, wouldn’t the GS skis be a good choice? Or do they need to much speed?
 

Dougb

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Can people educate me on how much more snow/terrain/conditions a ski in the mid to high 80s can handle versus mid to high 70s?
 

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