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PSIA Centerline 1988

Nancy Hummel

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A five hour group lesson at Snowmass is $175.00. Group lessons are great for most people. The beginner group lessons are very busy.
 

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
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Mountains need to charge people less for lessons so they will take them more frequently, pay instructors more so ski schools won't be understaffed, and market lessons to adults more effectively so the quantity of lessons increases to fill the resulting revenue gap. In what world will that happen, ever?
Yup

Yes it is the resort, not PSIA. But that doesn't take the blame off of them. They do nothing to advocate for Instructor pay or to advocate for lower lesson costs. They are practically an arm of Ski Area Management. They specifically state that it is not their purpose to advocate for us or for the students. Their purpose is solely Educational and Certification.
& yup
 

Kneale Brownson

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Interesting. Part of the reason PSIA's founders got together and decided to create the organization was the way USSA was trying to control virtually every aspect of ski instruction, including lesson content and pay rates, in the name of a nationally unified program.
 
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Steve

Steve

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Interesting. Part of the reason PSIA's founders got together and decided to create the organization was the way USSA was trying to control virtually every aspect of ski instruction, including lesson content and pay rates, in the name of a nationally unified program.

So instead they took a hands off approach on controlling anything, and made it student centered and Examiner centered.
 

Kneale Brownson

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USSA wanted you to teach a wedge, followed by a wedge turn, followed by a wedge christie, followed by........regardless of the vararaties of terrain across the country, for a set rate of pay across the country, etc. I think PSIA has done more for training instructors. That's their job, not policing ski area ski schools.
 
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Steve

Steve

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USSA wanted you to teach a wedge, followed by a wedge turn, followed by a wedge christie, followed by........regardless of the vararaties of terrain across the country, for a set rate of pay across the country, etc. I think PSIA has done more for training instructors. That's their job, not policing ski area ski schools.

Nor helping Instructors to be treated better. Normally Trade Associations work to better the lives of their members, not just certify them.
 

4ster

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I feel like I was in the thick of things during the Centerline era. It is too bad that PSIA pretty much dropped this model as it was a pretty simple reference for instructors to grow beyond a strictly linear teaching approach.
It would have been fun to see how things evolved as PSIA moved from a skills to a movement based approach, how the "Stepping Stones" could have been integrated, what maneuvers would have been dropped, added or changed & the significant impact that shaped skis would have had.

Also interesting to see how close we were to creating a National Standard in those days & the disappointment that they are no closer & possibly further away now.
 
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Kneale Brownson

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There is a performance national standard. Not so much for the perception of an evaluation national standard. Friends who have participated in the examiner college maintain they mainly all come up with similar evaluations. I think the big issue is the variance of terrain available across the country and training opportunities.
 

LiquidFeet

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Yes, the training opportunities vary widely in effectiveness. Widely. Too much reliance is placed on each candidate having a mentor. Mentors are often non-existent. Those of you who have worked with a dedicated mentor that you found within your own ski school need to realize that many candidates can't get a mentor because there isn't anyone on staff who might be able or willing to do it. Group clinics run by PSIA don't cut it.
 
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Viking9

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That Dynamic Parallel ( short radius ) turn is such a great turn, athletic and dynamic and can be taken anywhere.
No two ski carve bullshit.
 
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Steve

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Plus if you don't have an Examiner teaching at your home mountain, you're at a huge disadvantage. Information is not well disseminated to SSD's and trainers, so you may be trained one way only to find that the Examiners are looking for something else. (Yeah, yeah, I've heard the "you should be able to do whatever they ask for and demo" line too many times. BS)
 

4ster

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This one popped up from the same era with a bunch of recognizable old ski buddies.

I am surprised that @bud heishman is not in this?
 
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Tim Hodgson

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Private lessons are 1 hour where I teach and at most resorts I know of in the East. People can't afford to pay hundreds of dollars for a lesson.

Yes it is the resort, not PSIA. But that doesn't take the blame off of them. They do nothing to advocate for Instructor pay or to advocate for lower lesson costs. They are practically an arm of Ski Area Management. They specifically state that it is not their purpose to advocate for us or for the students. Their purpose is solely Educational and Certification.

There is no organization advocating for teachers or students.

I always thought it was odd that ski resorts were actual members of PSIA.
 

JESinstr

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At 8:35 is that flex to release? And, at 8:50, that's extension. Right?
The diverging parallels at 13:20 and on seem like flex to release to me.
I disagree, at least in the modern sense of flex to release, as illustrated by instructional materials that we've been discussing in recent threads. It's true that the skiers in this video end up strongly flexing the new inside leg. However, this is only following a strong upward extension move by that leg, to shift balance to the new outside ski. That move is necessary in the style of turn being demonstrated, because at the end of the old turn the skier creates a substantial divergence of the skis, and a huge inside tip lead. The feet are so far apart at that point that the skier has no choice but to make that big balance-shifting move. If the skier were to skip that move, and proceed directly to flexing the new inside leg, the turn would have to start on the new inside ski. The new outside ski would be way out there somewhere, and the turn would have to develop a while before the consequences of centripetal force would shift balance over the new outside ski.

The "diverging parallel turn" as demonstrated seems by today's standards a very odd technique to put into the centerline model.

As far as I can tell, I see no "Flex to Release" in any of the above referenced timings. Even in short radius turns on the steeps there appears to be an upward pop and then the legs flex.

Not withstanding Chris' explanations, if you just look at the edge changes you see one fundamental difference between the diverging transition and the others.

The diverging transition entails an extension move to a strong leg position onto the outside edge of the soon to be new outside ski thus a continuance of the old turn on a newly acquired edge. At that point, a complete edge to edge roll onto the inside edge of the new outside ski is initiated. The modern ILE transition is the diverging transition without the diverging and a defined move forward onto the outside edge of the soon to be new outside ski where the diverging technique is clearly a vertical up.

The other turns show no signs of old turn continuance on a new edge and are merely traditional vertical extension onto an already released flat ski followed by a roll to the new edge.

IMO what is significant between then and now is that shaped skis will enable the carving forces to be generated much higher in the turn helping to avoid all the skidding at the bottom that is quite evident in the video.
 

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