Press Release: Former Burton Exec Set to Shake Up the Alpine Ski Boot Business

Discussion in 'Ski Boot Discussion by America's Best Bootfitters' started by Philpug, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Ron

    Ron seeking the next best ski Pugski Ski Tester

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    Too wide or narrow?
     
  2. Big J

    Big J Getting on the lift Skier

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    Too narrow for 106mm last
     
  3. Big J

    Big J Getting on the lift Skier

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    Already bought the Salomon Xpro 130 and baked them. Have not skied them yet but reviews are good for them.
     
  4. DanoT

    DanoT RVer-Skier Skier

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    I am very happy with Head's Advant-Edge 125. It is 102mm last in size 26 and gains approx.2mm per size increase. It has what Head calls "Easy Fit" and even with my high instep, high volume foot, it is easy to get on and off.

    It also has "Form Fit" which means boot and liner can be heated in a special oven and then put on the foot (helps gain some volume).

    The boot also has "Liquid Fit" which consists of a bag built into the liner on both sides of the ankle which can be filled with a non freezing liquid to take up slack when/if needed.
     
  5. Big J

    Big J Getting on the lift Skier

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    Sounds like a nice boot. I am 106mm at 26 mondo. I recently purchased the Salomon X-Pro 130 and baked them. I have not skied them yet but they appear to fit me well. I do not know about entry/exit yet.
     


  6. Andy Mink

    Andy Mink I am a half fast skier. Moderator Pugski Ski Tester

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    Absolutely! In another thread we discussed what is needed to keep/get people on the snow. I guarantee it's NOT crappy fitting boots, either by design or fitment, that provide a terrible first time experience. Whether this boot will revolutionize higher performance boot is yet to be seen but if it can "revolutionize" rental/beginner/intermediate boots, that will be a big win. We ponder Raptors, RS, Recons, plug vs. non-plug, etc. but very rarely speak about the boots that the majority of skiers are looking for: easy entry/exit, warm, and comfortable. Flex, control, and all the other things an advanced or expert skier looks for aren't even in the beginner's lexicon, let alone anything they'll care about.

    So, I'll take the wait-and-see attitude. Maybe this will surprise.:huh:
     
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  7. DanoT

    DanoT RVer-Skier Skier

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    The boot has been available in Europe since 2013 so if it was viable as a rental boot (wholesale cost being key) then we would have seen it in rental shops in N.A. by now.
     
  8. Marker

    Marker XLTL Skier

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    I hated my rental boot phase, and can get Lange RS130 on and off without too much trouble, but seeing posters like @Brian Finch and @Josh Matta talk glowingly about their high-performance three-piece Full Tilt's and Dalbello's has me wondering about my next boot purchase. Why don't rental boots use the well-established three-piece/cabrio design to encourage beginners to keep skiing? Wouldn't a fairly snug cabrio boots be as easy for them to put on as a three-sizes-too-large overlap two-piece design?

    As for the Dahu boot, I can't imagine it would have the necessary backbone for a Clydesdale skier.
     
  9. cosmoliu

    cosmoliu Out on the slopes Skier

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    My rental boot phase was exactly one day. I went to a ski shop that night and bought my first pair of boots. Nordica Poseidons, as I recall. The sport clicked with me so completely, I knew immediately that this would be something I'd like to do for life.

    My first pair of Dalbello cabrios (Rampage) had the standard tongue liner. It was fun to amaze friends with a demonstration of putting them on with one hand. My current pair (KR2 Cores) have the Intuition power wrap liner, but they are only marginally more difficult to put on.
     
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  10. jack97

    jack97 Getting off the lift Skier

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    I have thought about the same question on why rentals d not use the cabrio designs. Only two manufacturers, Full Tilt and Dalbello have the rights for the cabrio design. It could be both companies don't see enough margins to make it worth their while. The other is ski areas have to make the call to replace their rental gear, not sure if this is a risk since the 4 piece buckle design is so entrenched in the collective mindset.

    As for the Full Tilt and Dalbellos, last I checked, the Dalbellos have more lateral support which gives you a stable platform when your rolling and placing the ankles to the sides. In addition, the KR2 generation (2nd generation of the Kryptons) has less ramp angle / forward lean to provide a neutral stance. I'm not a big fan of this but it could compensated by placing a shim under the heel pieces of my bindings.
     
  11. Near Nyquist

    Near Nyquist At the edge of instability Skier

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    Because they cost more to manufacture than a standard overlap boot.
    This cost is passed on to the rental fleet purchaser.
    So when you are buying over 1000 boots to replace a portion of your rental fleet the costs add up.

    Funny thing Dalbello is the largest rental boot fleet provider in my area, wonder why ?
     
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  12. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Rentals may mot like the cabrio also because of the flapping plastic tongue. In a zoo like environment things tend to break under rough use. If you throw an overlap boot, not much happens. A cabrio is a different story. Full tilt with its cables? Would be a mess.

    Remember the Rossi Soft Boot revolution?
    That was very short lived.
     
  13. Marker

    Marker XLTL Skier

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    Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated. Yes, I recall using Dalbello rentals, but they used funky plastic straps, not clips and buckles. Would not be hard to adapt to the cabrio, which could be made more robust for rentals. Should be possible to reduce cost by doing so. Also, I recall a Krypton 130 being cheaper than a Lange RX130, so there's that. The Langes fit my narrow foot better.

    Why couldn't Dalbello make a hybrid of the cabrio and Dahu/Apex designs? Best of both worlds?
     
  14. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    IMG_5722.JPG
    Alpina R4 Rental Adult.

    IMG_5721.JPG
    Nordica. Gran Tour Rental Adult.

    Both beginner boots.
     
    Marker likes this.
  15. Thread Starter
    TS
    Philpug

    Philpug Notorious P.U.G. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    Very true...then you get into payment terms....240 day terms are better than 180 day terms.
     
  16. Monster

    Monster Monstrous for some time now. . . Skier

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    Hm, skeptical. . . Maybe some, but not the big toe joint, big toe, little toe joint, and little toe, each of which can be critical to a good fit. Those are still inside the forefoot which would still have to be punched if needed. Besides which, even if they could eliminate pressure points conceptually, it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. Bumps and protrusions only seem like problems when they're in a shell that doesn't accommodate them and they hurt like hell. As soon as the shell is shaped correctly, those sinister lumps actually become advantages by serving as locators and anchors and help keep the foot aligned in the shell - in the best fits, they all work together.

    My Jetsons imagination is of accurate 3D foot scanning that gets fed into a 3D printer with algorithms coordinated with liner construction that makes a shell on the spot with material stiffness able to be tuned and that can still be punched after the fact when the skier's foot changes. Let's see someone do that :)
     
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  17. Thread Starter
    TS
    Philpug

    Philpug Notorious P.U.G. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I agree, eliminate is the wrong word to use...maybe minimize would have been better.

    We are currently seeing a common problem with the new Burton Step On binding system. There is no way to accommodate a wider forefoot. The mechanism where the boot clicks in is right at the first and fifth metatarsal and for a wider foot, this just does not work. With a frame design like this design, it could also be an issue here.
     
  18. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    "Your feet and legs are surveyed up to the knee by means of modern scan technology and used to create a virtual 3D computer model. Our ski boot technicians can use this model to determine the precise dimensions at all key points. In order to be able to construction individually optimized ski shoes, the individual skiing specifications and the customer-specific needs and requirements are determined and entered into our system."
    https://www.ertlrenz.de/en/orthopedics?id=14

    At some point they start nailing things on to one of their wooden lasts that comes close to your scan. Then the boot is formed around that. Go to the flip book on their site and you'll see the lasts.
    Sold at Gorsuch.
     
  19. Monster

    Monster Monstrous for some time now. . . Skier

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    Cool - They're about half way there :)
     
  20. markojp

    markojp mtn rep for the gear on my feet Industry Insider Instructor

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    Fwiw, reviews mean nothing for boots. They either work for the shape/volume/mechanics of our feet and the forces we manage, or they don't.
     
    Big J, SShore, Scruffy and 5 others like this.

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