Colorado Press Release: Arapahoe Basin Goes Ikon

[Coach13]

Just in case you wanted a day or two at Vail -- "primary" isn't "only."

(eta: A Front Ranger would have bought the Epic LOCAL pass, which gave you up to 10 days at Vail, and at $200 at the window, it's pretty easy to justify it.)

I can see that. But I guess that brings us full circle to the question of if the Epic Pass was such a bargain for front range skiers to ski primarily at AB yet for a few $ more to get 10 days at Vail, why the huge hurrah when AB split from Epic?

Btw-I personally think the Epic Local pass is a heck of a bargain even for us lowlife skiers from Northern VA. lol

 

[jmeb]

why the huge hurrah when AB split from Epic?

Because front rangers were used to having Abasin as their go-to weekend / weekday ski on the Epic pass (with Keystone as a backup), then making a few trips a year to Vail/Breck when they have friends from out of state visiting, and a long weekend to CB/TRide. At least, that is basically the pattern of every avid skier I know with an Epic pass that doesn't have lodging in the mtns.

Additionally -- the Abasin/Keystone pass was super popular. The cheapest pass by an acres/day/dollar metric in probably the world.

 

[Jilly]

As an Ikon pass base holder...the addition of A Basin is not going to make or break it for me. My home mountain is Mt Tremblant. But if I should attend the Mother's Day gathering, I won't need to beg for a discount from others...What else is on the horizon....

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

+1

I like AB but I nor anyone else imo ever bought an Epic Pass with the primary purpose of skiing AB. It was a nice bonus or late season option once the other resorts closed.

I’m a Franger, up until last season I bought Epic Local primarily for ABasin. I found a day or two to ski with @Doug Briggs at Breck each season and I had friends from the Midwest who came out and we’d ski Beaver Creek and Vail. The Local was well worth it to me.

 

[fatbob]

Because front rangers were used to having Abasin as their go-to weekend / weekday ski on the Epic pass (with Keystone as a backup), then making a few trips a year to Vail/Breck when they have friends from out of state visiting, and a long weekend to CB/TRide. At least, that is basically the pattern of every avid skier I know with an Epic pass that doesn't have lodging in the mtns.

Additionally -- the Abasin/Keystone pass was super popular. The cheapest pass by an acres/day/dollar metric in probably the world.

It seems difficult to me when you generalise about the experience of "core" skiers like e.g. a lot of the pugski, TGR demographic vs the "casual front range skier. There is a reason parking at Breck, Keystone, Vail, Copper, WP fills every weekend and it isn't just tourists. With AB the Ikon pass is now a more than viable contender for Front Rangers, particularly when you consider options for weekend getaways to SS and Aspen. Might take a while to battle the PR share of mind Epic has but I'm not sure AB will get much quieter.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

Except I, like many other Epic pass holders likely didn't ski the Basin more than a few days. It is pure speculation on everyone's part as to how it's going to play out, crowd wise.

It's all speculation by us but not by Al. He knows exactly what the profile of the epic user looks like. It's a relatively simple analysis to segment those users and predict which ones won't buy an Abasin pass and thus won't be there. It a little harder to predict how many Ikon pass holders will show up as they only have 1 years worth of data. Al is making a very educated guess backed up by reams of data.
I'd love to get my hands on all the epic pass scans over the last 10 years for all their resorts. With that data and some basic and easily accessible demographic and weather data, one could build a model that would predict pretty closely who would show up where on any given type of day.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

+1

I like AB but I nor anyone else imo ever bought an Epic Pass with the primary purpose of skiing AB. It was a nice bonus or late season option once the other resorts closed.

This is simply not true. I personally know 3 people closely who bought epic locals and skied the 90% of their 50 plus days at Abasin and used up the rest at Flail. I've met a few more like that on the lift at Abasin. Those 3 I know closely have now given up there epic pass and gotten Abasin passes. Those types will be buying basin passes passes but I'd bet there are a whole lot of people who skied 10-20 days at Abasin and 20 plus days at other epic resorts that won't.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

I’m a Franger, up until last season I bought Epic Local primarily for ABasin. I found a day or two to ski with @Doug Briggs at Breck each season and I had friends from the Midwest who came out and we’d ski Beaver Creek and Vail. The Local was well worth it to me.

This! Abasin is the best skiable terrain on the epic pass without driving to CB or Tride. I'm not discounting Brecks high Alpine but you have to deal with well Breck.

 

[Philpug]

This! Abasin WAS the best skiable terrain on the epic pass without driving to CB or Tride. I'm not discounting Brecks high Alpine but you have to deal with well Breck.

Fixed it for you.

 

[jmeb]

It seems difficult to me when you generalise about the experience of "core" skiers like e.g. a lot of the pugski, TGR demographic vs the "casual front range skier.

To be clear, 95% of the people who I know who ski that I'm generalizing from are from people I know via work, community organizing, or random friends on the Front Range. Maybe 5% have ever heard of PugSki or TGR. Most ski 10-15 days a year I would guess. Which makes either IKON or Epic worth it.

I will certainly admit that the people I talk most about skiing with are late 20s to late 30s and about a 50/50 mix of families vs DINKs/singletons. These are the folks that ski, but aren't skiers. They go up once early season, a handful of days mid-season, when family or fiends come to town, plan one 3-4 day ski weekend, and ski one spring day.

In fact, most people I know IRL that ski more than 30 days a year ski the vast majority of it in the backcountry and only buy a 4-pack or two.

 

[John Webb]

I personally think the Epic Local pass is a heck of a bargain even for us lowlife skiers from Northern VA. lol

Lol, Lowlifers from VA/MD , I was one once, now have a harder choice as Liberty ,Roundtop, Whitetail, Hunter & a couple more NE resorts will likely be on Epic next year. There’s a separate pug thread on it

The second year the CO Local pass. (now Epic local pass) was out I had one while living in the east. At that time it was for CO residents only but VR let me downgrade from full Epic.

 

[SkiNurse]

 

[James]

Where would people park and who would supply the buses? There isn't any large public area except the Frisco Transit Station. I doubt the Outlets at Silverthorne are going to offer their lots but who knows.

Well who’s supplying the CDot buses?
How many spaces are in that park by the lake and that diner? I forget the name.
Mass transit is never easy, but neither is the lack of.
Had the Olympics been voted in for 1976 this might not be such an issue as you’d likely have a train going up there in addition to the Winter Park one.

All this teeth gnashing on social media about Abasin. Sort of ridiculous. Just tell everyone who’s moved to the Denver/Front Range in the last 30 yrs to go away. When I lived in Boulder in the early 90’s the drive on 36? into Denver was barren for most of the way. Horses, junk. They had just started to throw up houses along the way. Now it’s pretty solidly filled, no?

 

[Uncle Louie]

Where would people park and who would supply the buses? There isn't any large public area except the Frisco Transit Station. I doubt the Outlets at Silverthorne are going to offer their lots but who knows.

Well here is a possibility that's strange enough to work.

Vail Resorts could do it. Section off a portion of one of the lots at Keystone and commandeer vehicles from Epic Mountain Express (formerly CO MT Express--- which they own) and charge for the parking and the ride up the hill. If they section off part of a lot and make it paid parking with a transportation cost added they make more than they had previously with cars parked in the lot with people headed to the Basin and spending nothing at Keystone.

The operation itself may or may not break even but in any event you still have potential future customers using a Vail Resorts service. Not the worst thing in the world to have a "movable billboard" dropping people off at the basin every hour either.

Yeah, it sounds a little (ok more than a little) stupid but depending on how ugly the split was between the parties.....well.....who knows.

 

[Ken_R]

To be clear, 95% of the people who I know who ski that I'm generalizing from are from people I know via work, community organizing, or random friends on the Front Range. Maybe 5% have ever heard of PugSki or TGR. Most ski 10-15 days a year I would guess. Which makes either IKON or Epic worth it.

I will certainly admit that the people I talk most about skiing with are late 20s to late 30s and about a 50/50 mix of families vs DINKs/singletons. These are the folks that ski, but aren't skiers. They go up once early season, a handful of days mid-season, when family or fiends come to town, plan one 3-4 day ski weekend, and ski one spring day.

In fact, most people I know IRL that ski more than 30 days a year ski the vast majority of it in the backcountry and only buy a 4-pack or two.

Last 2 seasons I have skied about 50 days each. Last season I was not in great shape so my backcountry outings were just about 10. I am getting back in shape so this upcoming season I should log about 20 days in the backcountry. So not quite 50/50 resort/backcountry for me yet but the with increasing crowds at the resorts this number is going up.

Its just not worth the hassle on a powder day most times since as you know sometimes just 30-60min of skinning will get you to untracked snow in the middle of the day...

I still need the days at the resorts to become a better skier though...

 

[Tricia]

View attachment 78113

This post was too priceless to not copy it here!!
I freaking love it.

 

[coskigirl]

Well here is a possibility that's strange enough to work.

Vail Resorts could do it. Section off a portion of one of the lots at Keystone and commandeer vehicles from Epic Mountain Express (formerly CO MT Express--- which they own) and charge for the parking and the ride up the hill. If they section off part of a lot and make it paid parking with a transportation cost added they make more than they had previously with cars parked in the lot with people headed to the Basin and spending nothing at Keystone.

The operation itself may or may not break even but in any event you still have potential future customers using a Vail Resorts service. Not the worst thing in the world to have a "movable billboard" dropping people off at the basin every hour either.

Yeah, it sounds a little (ok more than a little) stupid but depending on how ugly the split was between the parties.....well.....who knows.

They’d only have space to do this when Keystone is closed and I doubt they’d make enough money reliably to make it worth it for them to invest resources into.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Different expectation:

Population of San Francisco Bay area: ~ 8 million

Population of Denver metro area: ~ 3 million

Denvernites complain obsessively about I-70 traffic. Californians don’t even complain about I-80 traffic any more. Traffic is taken for granted. You’re thankful if in the rare occasion the traffic isn’t terrible!

Yeah try driving home from Maine on Sunday afternoon. I'd take that 2 1/2 hour drive any day of the week. 15 years ago I used to travel 101 or 260; can't imagine what it's like now.

 

[Near Nyquist]

Yeah try driving home from Maine on Sunday afternoon. I'd take that 2 1/2 hour drive any day of the week. 15 years ago I used to travel 101 or 260; can't imagine what it's like now.

It’s worse on 101 or 280 till around 7:30 or 8:00 pm, lots of cars going southbound
Mornings last past 10:00
Weather is still great, everything else not so much

 

[RJS]

As much as I hate the parking hassle at ABasin I'd still hate to see them add a parking garage, paved lots, or even expanded parking. They sit in the headwaters of an important river in a tight valley that is famous for its natural beauty. I'd rather they close the resort or raise the price 1000% rather than see them uglify the area with expanded driving and parking options. I overlook alot of my own selfishness in order to ski there but if they have to ruin that valley to make the place work then we should all find other things to do with our time. We're enough of a cancer on the land as it is.

I completely agree with you if Abasin decided to put up an ugly, simple concrete parking structure. But if they are held to a high standard, whether that's by the USFS, the public, or their own goals, I would imagine that they could design a parking structure that would actually be neutral at worst, and hopefully better than what currently exists.

For one, instead of allowing cars to park on the roof, they could have a green roof, which is essentially a roof that is covered in vegetation. They are becoming popular on new buildings here in Boston. Not only are they attractive, they allow plants to grow on a surface that in Abasin's case would otherwise be gravel/sand.

Additionally, they would need to choose attractive facade elements for the side of the garage. Although they aren't common, there are some beautiful, architecturally pleasing parking structures out there.

While this would probably be less physically attractive, another option would be to have the roof of the parking structure coated in solar panels. While perhaps not physically attractive, this would be great for the planet.

The bigger question that Abasin patrons ought to be asking when it comes to parking though is the tradeoff between parking and crowds on the slopes. It sounds like the parking situation at Abasin currently limits the total number of skiers that can be on the mountain at one time. With the recent terrain expansions, I do not hear a whole lot of complaining about lines or crowds (with the exception of early season). Would folks here be willing to accept more available parking for more lines/crowds? Improving access is a double edged sword. As an example, I am very interested in the debates over improving access to Little Cottonwood Canyon (Snowbird, Alta). Many proposed solutions would be ecologically friendly and would allow for improved access...at the cost of making these mountains even more crowded.