Prepping to Start Ski Racing Next Season.

[fkb]

Lol, true. Or it's a hood decal on a car.
Saloman did make the Falcon race boot some years ago.

While instructing as a way to get into things and make money sounds good, if the goal is college racing then it doesn't help you get there. Doesn't help much with money either frankly. Realize you can be there all day and may work 0 hrs, 2 , 4, 6 hours.

There's simply no substitute for snow time, and races are pretty inefficient for that. Lots of standing around.
Coached training is essential, you need eyes on what your doing esp since you have no experience at this point.

I might have been misunderstood since the program that I'm discussing has coached training. They do 2 1/4 hours of training each day on the hill (https://www.mplsalpineski.org/).

Then the way my instructing group works for money is 30dollars a day for helping as a bus chaperone than normal wage pay from 10-3. With little options for work if ski team is to become a thing, this is one of the few things i can do.

But I do understand that time on the snow is necessary. I'm going to look into other groups as members such as @rcc55125 have suggested

 

[fkb]

I wouldn't worry about boots right now too much, as long as they fit WELL. Make sure your skis have the proper turn radius for SL (12-13). I see most HS racers around here on either Vokyl Racetigers or Fisher RC4's. Both are excellent skis for a HS racer from what I've heard and seen.

Get googles with CLEAR lenses in them, or at least yellow or pink. You're going to do almost all your training at night. If you've got the money, get some really good warm base layers and mid weight layers for under your speed suit. The HS teams here ski in any and all conditions and you'll do some waiting around for your turn through the course. Stay warm. Hottronics boot warmers are recommended as well but not cheap.

My current goggles are yellow and have treated me well. and I'm set for layers with the bonus of not getting cold easily.

 

[fkb]

First, listen to some of the advice above, particularly from @BGreen. Being a ski instructor has no relevance to learning to ski slalom. And slalom is not something you can just jump into a course and somehow develop. It is in some ways the hardest race discipline. It requires coaching and the opportunity to run gates regularly to progress. Typically only found through a race program. Otherwise, you are simply wasting your time and will find yourself running at the back of the pack.

Equipment wise at a minimum you will need shin guards and hand guards on your poles. Hitting gates without shin or pole guards is extremely painful! Your boots will probably work to start with but if you are serious about this you will find yourself needing to change them before long. At a minimum put a booster strap on them Skis will definitely need to be upgraded. You say you are going to buy atomic slaloms. Some advice to save you wasting money. Buy the proper FIS ski, not the "race look alike". the non FIS one simply does not stand up to a lot of gate use. Also, given this is your first foray into slalom, I would suggest going with a 157/158 ski rather than a 165, will be a bit easier on you. Look for good used ones if you can at this stage, easier to find deals on 157/158 as well.

How do the bootstraps enhance the boot? (just wondering)

When looking for the ski (FIS) ski, should I be seeking out the current year model? is there a significant change between the 2017 or 2018 SL?

The group I'm thinking about joining (https://www.mplsalpineski.org/) does 2 1/4 hours of training per weekday.

And yes, I very much understand how different instructing and racing are. I'm not planning to use one as the base for another, just mainly to get money to help finance new gear and training costs.

 

[fkb]

fkb, my son races for a HS team in the metro and joined last year as a freshman. They ski 3 days a week at Trollhaugen and race at Troll and Wild.

My best advice for you would be to join a D team that trains on the weekends here locally during the season. My son is in race academy each Sunday at Troll. It goes from 9:30 to 3:00 with a 1 hour lunch break. That's 4.5 hours of extra racing per week with instructors. Teams only really get 2 hours of practice each weekday so those Sunday sessions are super important. We also race both SL and GS in D team which the kids love. If you want you can do D team on Saturdays AND Sundays, providing you can get transportation to the hill.

We also free ski lots of Friday nights and also after D team is over on Sunday. Our coaches motto is 'ski, ski and ski more'.

Another good option is spring Slalom at Trollhaugen which is a series of 4 races that take place each Thursday night after the HS season is over. Almost our whole HS team did it this year and did well.. It's great additional racing, but there is no coaching involved.

Our coach also recommends rollerblading during the summer and participating in a fall sport as well, such as cross country.

How much is the Troll racing group? because my sundays are open, (saturdays being the days I instruct).

 

[S.H.]

I don't know what Race Hawks are, but I'm pretty sure any boot with "Hawk" in the name isn't a race boot. If you are hung up on birds, Head sells Raptors.

Saloman did make the Falcon race boot some years ago.

And Tecnica is branding their race line as "Firebird" next year!

But seriously ... being "good enough to ski for a college team" is still a massive range in skiing ability. Most college programs are *not* D1 programs. Most are fun, relatively-low-ability groups that have a blast for a few weekends a year with like-minded kids from other schools. The ability level at most college events is probably close to the level you'll see in high school racing in MN.

As far as equipment, it's likely that equipment that would be good for you *right now* and equipment that will be good for you in the middle of next winter are not going to be the same. This is true especially if you take advantage of access to good coaching and dedicate yourself on the hill and "in the gym", and are truly a quick learner. I'd vote for being on equipment that will be good for you at the beginning of the year, so you have the tools to improve. However, be aware that your needs will change as you improve.

If cost is no issue, get a suit now. Why not? No pads + stealth is faster than pads, but pads are more convenient. But ... I'd spend your money elsewhere.

Ski racing is an amazing sport. Have fun.

 

[focker]

How much is the Troll racing group? because my sundays are open, (saturdays being the days I instruct).

I think it's around $280 for the year. It's a great deal when you break down how much instruction you get for the little amount of money.

You asked about a speed suit. Our coach says you don't really need one as a first year racer, but most every kid gets one, probably just more to 'look the part' more than anything else. Racing suits really only take fractions of a second off your time (if that) in a SL race. Get a padded one if you can. I don't see any kids wearing arm guards for SL races, but people do wear them for GS races around here.

 

[ScotsSkier]

How do the bootstraps enhance the boot? (just wondering)

When looking for the ski (FIS) ski, should I be seeking out the current year model? is there a significant change between the 2017 or 2018 SL?

The group I'm thinking about joining (https://www.mplsalpineski.org/) does 2 1/4 hours of training per weekday.

And yes, I very much understand how different instructing and racing are. I'm not planning to use one as the base for another, just mainly to get money to help finance new gear and training costs.

the booster strap helps give a more progressive flex on the boot and, given you are in a relatively soft boot will help a bit for racing.

At this stage i would not worry about a current year ski! you will not notice any difference between them. And, as per met previous post, and as per @S.H. , what you need ski wise to start with will probably be different from what you need if you develop further. I would strongly counsel against hunting for a new slalom ski and dropping >$700 on it at this stage. Find a decent used 157/158 which can normally be had for $250-$350 and start with that to build some confidence and skills. and dont necessarily fixate on Atomic. All the major brands -Atomic, Blizzard, Nordica, Rossignol, fischer etc make decent FIS slalom skis that will work for you, relatively small differences in characteristics and you will have far more to worry about than that. Also if looking for a good used pair, make sure they have bindings. A lot of racers now sell them without the bindings (they keep them for their new ski) and you can find that your "cheap" ski now requires you to drop another $250+ for the required binding

 

[James]

 

[HDSkiing]

@fkb i raced at your age which was decades ago.

Now I’m just a ski bum working full time as an instructor out here in the Rockies. Great advice on equipment etc so I won’t go there. As for conditioning, get a solid foundation in your core/legs through strength training then transfer to more muscular endurance and work on eccentric vs concentric as the fall approaches. Slalom was my speciality as well, timing and being quick on your feet is what you will need so anything that promotes those things will help. My team at that time played soccer and actually ran gates on the grass with our ski poles to develop timing and position so that we could begin to mentally work through race courses and read the terrain.

Teaching and racing are two very different things but there are similarities that you should take advantage of. You have skied 4 years recreationallly which is a great start but you may still need to really revisit the fundamentals of body/ski performance. Performance turns may be foreign to you, or not, but often are not something a lot of recreational skiers do. Find a mentor in the ski school who either has a racing background or understands the dynamics of it. Be prepared to spend a lot of time on easy terrain getting the basics down, the speed will come.

Lastly ski as much as you can! Race days don’t count, you will learn the meaning of “hurry up and wait.” While your friends are off skiing the fresh pow, sending it in the park or blasting the bumps you will be trying to stay warm so that you can ski your two runs, that might take all day...

Have fun and enjoy it, do it for yourself and it won’t feel like a chore. Regardless of where it takes you, you will be a better skier as a result!

 

[Swede]

Listen to rcc5512.
He’s local and from my limited MS experience he got good intel.
A speed suit can be good and preferred not only for your times, but also for coaches to be able to see your legs clearly (angles). Wide, bulky pants is no good for that reason.

 

[Philpug]

@fkb i raced at your age which was decades ago.

Now I’m just a ski bum working full time as an instructor out here in the Rockies.

So, @fkb because of posts like that, do NOT let your parents read this thread.

 

[Magi]

My goal would be to shoot for college team. However, I understand that requirements are high for those types of programs.

More detailed would be that i want to progress as a skier beyond simply carving or teaching and want to push myself to my limits and enjoy myself while giving something to tender my competitive spirit.

WRT competing at a high level:
1) Find the best program you can that gives you the most time on snow.
2) Maximize your time off the course to maximize your time on the course.

• You will not learn to ski in the gates - you will learn to apply the skills you already have in the gates.
• Time on snow is precious - Every inch of vertical you ski should have a purpose and a focus that improves fundamentals.
• Get your body Strong, Agile, and Precise. (Find a Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach with a Functional Movement Specialty).
• Fuel your body by eating well (*lots* of protein) and sleeping 8-9 hours a night.

3) Expect to start at the back of the pack. Set your goals against yourself, not against kids who may have a 6-10 year racing head start on you.
4) Enjoy the ride.


The biggest shock I had learning to race as an adult is the ratio of time spent waiting to time spent on course. 2 hours of training time might result in 5-10 minutes of actual time in gates. That's why you have to spend time *out* of gates and make that time count. (Free skiing is *good* and is massively important for training recovery movements, just free ski with a focus.)

Contrary to what some have said about ski instruction and Racing being total opposites - I'll suggest that they can be complementary. Mostly because learning how to coach people will help you coach yourself and evaluate/understand the coaching you receive. That said - if you've got three seasons to get ready for a college race program - focus on the outcome you want.

 

[fkb]

So, @fkb because of posts like that, do NOT let your parents read this thread.

I'll make sure to try!

(also i would like to hear about stickers)

 

[wallyk]

@fkb,

As far as equipment goes, see Dave Hinz at Pierce Skate and Ski, http://www.pierceskateandski.com. .

Lots of sage and good advice here........but IMHO this is the best advice on the entire thread. @rcc55125 knows what he's talking about.

Go see Dave Hinz at Pierce in Bloomington. Fantastic shop that is staff with some of the most knowledgeable people in the twin cities. This shop is the best in the area for a reason. They know racing. Just go to talk. Don't have to buy just yet, but Dave is a bastion (SAT word there) of local and all things racing/skiing information and will listen to you and offer guidance. The guy is the best.

I have one daughter who races at Welch Village D-team and for the last 2 years and finishes in the top 4-6 of her age group. I went to Pierce to talk not about equipment but about racing program options because she wants to do more racing net season. Dave gave IMO some fine advice and a set of options that accommodate my daughter's skiing objectives along with my capital and time budget.

Good luck!!!!!

 

[fkb]

Lots of sage and good advice here........but IMHO this is the best advice on the entire thread. @rcc55125 knows what he's talking about.

Go see Dave Hinz at Pierce in Bloomington. Fantastic shop that is staff with some of the most knowledgeable people in the twin cities. This shop is the best in the area for a reason. They know racing. Just go to talk. Don't have to buy just yet, but Dave is a bastion (SAT word there) of local and all things racing/skiing information and will listen to you and offer guidance. The guy is the best.

I have one daughter who races at Welch Village D-team and for the last 2 years and finishes in the top 4-6 of her age group. I went to Pierce to talk not about equipment but about racing program options because she wants to do more racing net season. Dave gave IMO some fine advice and a set of options that accommodate my daughter's skiing objectives along with my capital and time budget.

Good luck!!!!!

After this many recommendation, I'll definitely check out both WV D team and Pierce.

@wallyk do you feel that Just sunday D-Team would be worth it? Because a priority to me is to continue instructing (if posssible) with skijammers.

 

[wallyk]

After this many recommendation, I'll definitely check out both WV D team and Pierce.

@wallyk do you feel that Just sunday D-Team would be worth it? Because a priority to me is to continue instructing (if posssible) with skijammers.

Ahhh the jammers. Keep doing that on Saturday if you enjoy it. IMHO the Welch Sunday D-Team is worth checking out. The smaller number of participants on Sunday vs Saturday is a bonus that will help speed your development. The Sunday program enjoys the same inter club race schedule as the Saturday program, so you'll have the opportunity compete and not just run gates.

Another plus for the Welch program is that it includes GS training which provides some variety and the opportunity to ski a little faster. My daughter loves GS and while Welch is not huge, the training she has received has helped her consistently place in the top 5 in GS events, which is pretty good considering last year was her first year of instruction!!! Additionally, the GS for older kids is on some "steep" trails and that looks like fun....love watching kids bomb the GS course....Finally, the start time on Sunday is 10:30 vs 9:30 on Saturday.

Look, at the end of the day whatever program you select will be fun and help you improve and at the very least get you on the path of skiing for the high school. Have an open mind, get some instruction while learning how to ski gates and enjoy. Probably easier for a 42 year old to write than for a teenager to actually execute, but I admire your curiosity and willingness to try something new. Remember similar to what you probably teach the kids at Jammers, this sport is about having fun.

 

[razie]

A lot of great advice already from @BGreen and others. Just a couple notes.

@BGreen Great advice! Does any of the workout advice (or maybe just how to go about it) change for a teenager who's still growing vs an adult?

Yes. Until PHV (roughly maturity) strength training should be limited to body weight exercises, i.e. no weights.

HS freshman is that like 14? I would disagree with Scottsskier slightly on the FIS skis and would get a junior race ski instead. 155 for SL. Although, on second thought, you do have the weight and height, so a short FIS ski would work, especially a well used one. Make sure to check the binding DIN range when you buy, make sure it starts no higher than 4. Use an online calculator to find your number and don't say you're a racer, as you're not yet. I would think you're around 5. If the ski keeps coming off for no reason as you go through the ruts, crank it up half a Din until it stays put. But make sure to take them to a legit shop to set them up initially. - it's not a DIY.

I ended up coaching a bit of HS as well for a few years and, if it's like up here, you should know that there is little gate time, little training time and sub-par coaching, in general (present company excepted ). Check the schedule as in training days vs race days.

I don't think instructing and racing will work, unless the instructing helps keep you on snow. Instructing at your level is not focused on making the ski perform, which is what racing is all about. You'll get to babysit noobs and kids more than actually ski.

Hawx is not a race boot. Not even close... but may be good enough in the first year if it is fitted well. Likely it's too large though and will cause issues with technique. Do the shell fit test (Google it) closer to the beginning of the season, as you're still growing... if it's the right size (just below painful ) but then gets tight and painful as you're growing through the season, take it to a shop, they can fix that to get you through the season. Keep an eye on your feet - problems sometimes develop quietly.

Back to coaching... You will not have an easy time learning to ski well and in the long run, that's what matters. The racing part will just get in the way and slow down learning. It's fun though, right? The race training is good, but getting into courses before you ski well again will slow down your learning.... But that's that. I don't bring it up to discourage you - it's all good fun in the end, but to emphasize what to watch out for, if you're serious about improving your skiing.

Its slalom, specifically, so the best useful advice is probably this: DO NOT cross block as long as you can. It will completely mess you up. You'll have to trust me on that. Simply duck the other way (angulation is a very good thing) and worst case scenario, id you get close enough, clear the gate with the inside hand.

When should you worry about cross blocking? Let's say only when you can shin all the stubbies in a course (the little gates that are knee height), for starters.

Slalom is mean, up close and personal. Make sure you have your protective gear - @ScotsSkier listed that.

Anyways, remember to have fun... that's why you're doing it.

Have fun.

 

[pchewn]

You might want to try some slalom skateboarding.

 

[Magi]

... Make sure to check the binding DIN range when you buy, make sure it starts no higher than 4. Use an online calculator to find your number and don't say you're a racer, as you're not yet. I would think you're around 5. If the ski keeps coming off for no reason as you go through the ruts, crank it up half a Din until it stays put. But make sure to take them to a legit shop to set them up initially. - it's not a DIY.
...
Have fun.

Really like the advice that @razie is giving. I'd modify what he suggests about "crank the bindings up till they stay on" with the following: DIN settings protect bones from breaking - not ligaments. I'd highly suggest reading this link so you understand some basics about kinds of pre-release, and their causes, so you can make a somewhat educated decision about when it is appropriate to turn your DIN up to fix a "pre-release". (Short version - there are kinds of pre-release you can only fix with technique improvements, and cranking your DIN to "fix" those just puts you at higher risk of leg injury).

 

[razie]

(Short version - there are kinds of pre-release you can only fix with technique improvements, and cranking your DIN to "fix" those just puts you at higher risk of leg injury).

Good point and good article. Only consider checking your binding and re-evaluating the DIN If the ski comes off frequently for apparently no reason, and don't be quick to increase it. The reality is that I keep racers from messing with it a lot more often than agree with them that it may be increased, so most are indeed too quick to ratchet it up, like the article says.

If you look at racing specifically, there are even more conditions than in the article, that cause pre releases frequently, especially with lower skilled racers, which ski a late line and hit the ruts sideways or let the ski chatter - and a coaches eye would be required to evaluate that.

In fact this is a video that I wanted to paste in my first post, when looking at not cross blocking - see how many times he is ducking vs clearing with the inside hand vs cross-blocking. It is more relevant now as it contains a release and I will leave it up to you to think if he should have cranked the DIN up...


(spoiler alert: his DIN was really high already and after reviewing the video at the time, I decided it was one of the conditions described in the article - which one?)