Pow Ski Ideas

[Tom K.]

So, I put in a ridiculously low bid on a pair of new 191 cm K2 Pinnacle 118s last night, and much to my surprise, it was accepted, so here we go!

I went 191 over the more generally recommended 184 because every time I've tried a soft snow ski at anything but the longest option, I've regretted it -- I think mostly because of the fact that my home area just is not generally very steep, and our snow is not very light. The extra planing surface allows for more turns in more places, which beats straight-line coasting in my book.

I looked long and hard at the DPS 112 RP Hybrids, but they had one very fatal flaw -- one of my main ski buddies has them, and since they are screaming yellow, the Old Guys Who Match factor would just be too darn cute.

Thanks for the input everybody. I'll report back with some impressions, assuming the pow gods provide a few more opportunities this season.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I"m late to the conversation and haven't read the previous posts. If you want a tail without rocker and a tip that won't dive, consider the Dynastar Cham v2.0 series. They work great. Widths range from 117 down to 87(?). I have the 117 and 107 (a bit of overlap, but I got a huge deal). The 117 worked flawlessly in the 37" + we had at Breck recently. The 107s wouldn't have sucked.

 

[FairToMiddlin]

Well, after two of the best resort pow days of the year at Mt. Hood Meadows, powder ski thoughts are raging again.......

Me: 6'2", 195 pounds, 56 years old, still skiing pretty fast. Level 10 in ability, probably a solid 8 when evaluated by a technically excellent instructor. No longer seeking air.

Day 1 was on my 193 Patrons. I like this ski a lot. No tip dive ever, super easy, quick, surprising fun on groomed segments, etc. But, the rockered tails seem to lack support in chop, and honestly, I just find turn completion on a ski with this much tail rocker kind of unsatisfying.

Day 2 was on a pair of ancient but lightly skied 185 Line Influence 115s. A bit of early rise. No tail rocker or rise, but they do have upturned tails. These tails get my undying LOVE, but the front of the ski is prone to dive. Overall, the ski is overly-damp, so blasts the dickens out of crud, but is oh so dull on groomed segments.

Who's got some ideas? Any ski has to be wide. I'm not small, and Mt. Hood Meadows is not steep. The ability to make low angle turns is essential. I'm strictly a resort guy, so performance in chop and crud is a requirement after 10 AM (nobody in Hood River goes to work on a midweek powder day).

Finally, with powder skis especially, I am a huge fan of Josh's embracing of "trailing edge technology" because price is king in this situation.

Thanks!

Tom, you know you're asking a lot!

By that I mean the 'extra skills' for a pow ski: statements like "turn completion unsatisfying", and "oh so dull on groomed segments" sound suspiciously like you want a wide ski to satisfy you everywhere (don't worry, I secretly want that, too, shhhh...).

I have been on the 193 Patron, however, and I totally agree with you. What I wish the Patron had was the tail of the Vagabond or El Capo, that would make it into a very special pow ski for you, me and Drahtguy. But it doesn't, so let's move on.

I own the 2012 185 Influence 115, my brother from another mother. I really like it because of its strong construction (note: 2012 is the old Prophet 115 with the metal matrix standing proud from the top sheet, '13 is the current design with the metal inlaid and flush, softer and more smeary tail, and more relaxed sidecut), it can power through dense snow, and chopped up snow very, very pleasingly. The shape does allow tip dive if you aren't constantly fighting to stay in the middle of your foot, and it is dull on groomers (but competent; 19M TR with a strong, flat, wide tail is better than you can hope for in most pow skis, just sayin'). For where you ski (and how I think you ski, although I don't really know for sure) I would take its collection of compromises over the Patron.

Some trailing edge options that I don't think I saw yet (apologies if I missed it in previous posts) are the Atomic Automatic 186 & 193, and the Sollie Q 115 188, and the Line Sick Day 125 193.

The Q 115 and the Auto are similar-feeling, playful/versatile pow skis. Both have more tail to finish those turns with than the Patron, and quick as they are, I think they have enough beef for you, certainly as much or more than the Patron. I would give an edge to the Q for power (plus, their 188 really measures 188, unlike that 185 Influence which is really 182), about equal for "groomed segments", and both have tip dive resistance of the Patron, not the Influence. Perhaps you would like a little extra tip dive lovin', and get the 193 Auto, but I like the feeling of the 186. I do think you would be slightly happier on the Q115 than either Auto, but not by a jaw dropping margin, if you find a good deal.

So, the 193cm Sick Day 125. I own that, too. It has the tail I wish the Patron had, and a similar flex, and it is a hoot if you are stepping out of a cat to get to your fresh turns, but it is a bit less versatile than the Auto and Q 115. I didn't even ski it this year, I opted for the Influence 115 instead, even on a cat day. Still a good ski, just not something you would reach for as much.

I have not been on the Bodacious, but I would bet folding money that it makes the Influence 115 feel like a thrill a minute on "groomed segments". On the Cochise (even the 2016) , you can measure the time it takes for the tip to hook up (after you do your part) with a slow moving timepiece. I know we are talking pow skis here, but Tom is shooting for the stars, just pointing out what he might not get with the Bodacious (although I have no doubt it is money on trucking through variable, its little brother is fantastic).

 

[Tom K.]

Tom, you know you're asking a lot!

By that I mean the 'extra skills' for a pow ski: statements like "turn completion unsatisfying", and "oh so dull on groomed segments" sound suspiciously like you want a wide ski to satisfy you everywhere (don't worry, I secretly want that, too, shhhh...).

I have been on the 193 Patron, however, and I totally agree with you. What I wish the Patron had was the tail of the Vagabond or El Capo, that would make it into a very special pow ski for you, me and Drahtguy. But it doesn't, so let's move on.

I own the 2012 185 Influence 115, my brother from another mother. I really like it because of its strong construction (note: 2012 is the old Prophet 115 with the metal matrix standing proud from the top sheet, '13 is the current design with the metal inlaid and flush, softer and more smeary tail, and more relaxed sidecut), it can power through dense snow, and chopped up snow very, very pleasingly. The shape does allow tip dive if you aren't constantly fighting to stay in the middle of your foot, and it is dull on groomers (but competent; 19M TR with a strong, flat, wide tail is better than you can hope for in most pow skis, just sayin'). For where you ski (and how I think you ski, although I don't really know for sure) I would take its collection of compromises over the Patron.

Some trailing edge options that I don't think I saw yet (apologies if I missed it in previous posts) are the Atomic Automatic 186 & 193, and the Sollie Q 115 188, and the Line Sick Day 125 193.

The Q 115 and the Auto are similar-feeling, playful/versatile pow skis. Both have more tail to finish those turns with than the Patron, and quick as they are, I think they have enough beef for you, certainly as much or more than the Patron. I would give an edge to the Q for power (plus, their 188 really measures 188, unlike that 185 Influence which is really 182), about equal for "groomed segments", and both have tip dive resistance of the Patron, not the Influence. Perhaps you would like a little extra tip dive lovin', and get the 193 Auto, but I like the feeling of the 186. I do think you would be slightly happier on the Q115 than either Auto, but not by a jaw dropping margin, if you find a good deal.

So, the 193cm Sick Day 125. I own that, too. It has the tail I wish the Patron had, and a similar flex, and it is a hoot if you are stepping out of a cat to get to your fresh turns, but it is a bit less versatile than the Auto and Q 115. I didn't even ski it this year, I opted for the Influence 115 instead, even on a cat day. Still a good ski, just not something you would reach for as much.

I have not been on the Bodacious, but I would bet folding money that it makes the Influence 115 feel like a thrill a minute on "groomed segments". On the Cochise (even the 2016) , you can measure the time it takes for the tip to hook up (after you do your part) with a slow moving timepiece. I know we are talking pow skis here, but Tom is shooting for the stars, just pointing out what he might not get with the Bodacious (although I have no doubt it is money on trucking through variable, its little brother is fantastic).

@FairToMiddlin: First, thanks for the detailed response. Great reading! A few thoughts:

You nailed it on the Influence 115. I've got the same older version as you (my wife does not love the graphics with the serpent coiled around the femur). In steep, cut up stuff, it rocks. Talk about finishing a turn with calm, slightly energetic authority in that environment. But oh, does it like to tip dive, if you aren't constantly minding your manners as you noted. This is a death sentence at Mt. Hood Meadows because so much of our stuff is not steep, and our snow is not typically what you would honestly call powder. This ski just stalls out/starts to dive on flatter to medium terrain if I am not perfect (or look up to say hi to a friend riding the chair). Conversely, the Patron just skims along speedily in the same conditions, but then in steep cut up chop it becomes, well, just OK.

I read up a bit on the Sick Day 125, but ultimately decided it was too one dimensional, esp since I'm not quite at the point in my life where I can hit EVERY powder day. I'm not ready to throw down for that fat of a ski.

The Bodacious. I concluded it was just a ski where I was starting to fall more for the idea I had of what it should be than what it was (though the old shape in metal-free guise like this year would be very tempting).

Finally, as noted above, I pulled the trigger on a pair of K2 Pinnacle 118s in the Big Boy size of 191. Not because I secretly imagine myself as an older Seth, but because I'll take every square centimeter of planing surface possible here at home (and I'm not often found in super-tight trees. It has tip rocker that appears somewhat similar to the Patron, but far less tail rocker, and a slightly stiffer, but MUCH more consistent flex. I haven't even looked at K2s for a long time -- after skiing them my whole life until about age 40 -- but these review very well in various places, including Real Skiers, which seems to be largely populated by a bunch of older, carving oriented guys not unlike myself. Also, I made a low-ball Sunday evening fleabay offer that was surprisingly accepted.

Stay tuned for a report once they show up next week!

 

[Sintesi]

Sorry if I'm out of sync on the posts. Make sure you try the Moment Bibby Pro. Great ski for the person that posted earlier that they like GS skis and a ski with good float. The reviews are spot on. They excel in soft and cut up conditions. Decent in the bumps and if you have to..they carve some nice trenches on the groomers on the way to the lift. They have a GS feel in open cut up runs and are quicker turning in steep or deep conditions.

 

[markojp]

Appreciate the input. The Bodacious is VERY interesting to me. Tough to find any significant discounts at this point, but I have time. You're in the PNW also, IIRC, so how is the tip dive and or tip planing in deeper snow?


Thanks, all!

Have never experienced tip dive with mine. Hard to imagine it in fact.

 

[Superbman]

Two Years ago I skied a liberty variant in deep, heavy snow at Crystal….loved it. It has a strip of metal, low rise tip, 113 waist. Lot's of power and lots of pop, I always thought that if I lived in Enumclaw and skied Crystal as my home mountain I'd want a ski like that, or the Q-Lab.