Popping in the turn

[geepers]

Didn't want to cut across the good MA discussion going on elsewhere so putting this in a new thread...

A question... how much does popping vertically in the turn matter?

Second, you extend off of the uphill (old outside ski) and come up, losing contact with the outside ski in the early part of the turn.

The notion that focus on tipping the new inside ski little toe edge is an effective way to begin directing pressure to the outside ski is misguided. All this does is help promote that you begin with a movement of your mass to the inside with the assumption that turning forces will be there at the right time and place to support the counter force of your mass. And odds are that the movement of mass will be one of upper body inclination and not angulation.

The inside leg promotes the development of edge angles not by tipping but primarily through active, regulated shortening (Flexing) that also "makes room" for proper alignment of mass to the inside edge of the outside ski. While shortening, it is very natural for the inside leg to mimic the angles of the outside leg.

This process begins with the ankles and progressively moves up through the knees to the hip sockets where the pelvis can laterally incline (move) to the inside while the trunk remains as vertical as possible. When I contemplate a turn, my focus is on lifting the uphill/outside edge of the old inside ski and the shortening of the inside leg, not rolling down on the little toe edge of the old outside ski.

Those are good points. And yet here's some-one who looks (to me at least) to be achieving good performance with a substantial amount of vertical movement.

And the vid itself. Practically any of the JAM vids would do - it seems to be their technique.

 

[Fuller]

It seems like a matter of intensity as much as anything. That little pop can be satisfying to the soul as long as you don't need to change edges in a hurry. Certainly you need to be able to eliminate the up move when required.

 

[Bad Bob]

Partially a question of intent. Do you want to do cross over or cross under turns?
In your GIF that skier is getting so much edge angle it would be very awkward to do cross under. If you ski like the guy in the GIF, you can do it anyway you want.

 

[JESinstr]

Might be mixing apples and oranges with this one. @Ozan was intentionally extending against the force of gravity during transition.
In the video above, all I see is someone who is an expert at creating, deleting turning forces and managing that process with exquisite control.

 

[razie]

He's not as tall in transition as it may seem...

But he does come up a bit - in my mind, he is skiing a fairly relaxed turn shape with a lot of offset. He's not going after a WC SL performance turn...

The important thing is to flex to release, in order to manage the forces of the turn and avoid jamming it or launching up too high.

Also, the other important bit is to have the legs have some flexion at the top of the turn, to allow the feet and ankles to do their thing - which he has as well.

Great skier! I like these guys a lot, even though the common perception is that Italians ski tall - which is not really the case...

 

[Mike King]

The Italians often use tall transitions. That being said, they ski from the feet up, not from the top down.

Mike

 

[dj61]

I am with Razie on this one. Look at the inside legs. They are totally flexed in transition.

 

[Mike King]

Here's an example of them skiing tall:


Note that a number of these members of the demo team are also former FIS athletes.

And here's another of a current FIS athlete:

 

[razie]

Agree that they do tend to ski taller than others might, but not where it counts and not as tall as some might think. Had this particular argument with an Italian FIS racer I coached for a couple of seasons, who was coached "tall" and told that's "Italian style" and I convinced her when we actually paused a winning run of Brignone at every transition and count only to find out that she is deeply flexed (i.e. "sitting") 2/3 of the time or more, still. And when she's "tall", her legs are not generally straight...


I guess that race is taken down - was the first race this season, I think?. Watch these 2 runs and pause when the skis are flat.

Cheers

 

[Tim Hodgson]

I don't usually contribute to these threads because I learn more from you guys and gals than I can possibly contribute. But let me say something.

I teach my intermediate skiers not to "pop" per se but to extend from the ankles and knees. I ask them what happens when they extend? Do your skis go on edge or go flat? When they say they "go flat," I tell them that a flat ski is a transition from one turn (in which there is necessarily some edging either active (knees into the hill) or passive (due to the steepness of the slope) to the turn in the opposite direction. I tell them that extending is not the only way to make your skis transition (we can pull our ankles/knees up to flatten our skis), but extension is what we are used to (from walking step to step).

I never learned the strictly fall line down extension (bend the skis) into the powder, up extension turn the skis on top of the powder method of skiing powder. I am working on it now. To the uninitiated this may also look like "popping." But from Deb Armstrong's static demo of the ankle close/open extension movement you can see that it is not:


FYI, like most of these threads IMHO, when someone asks about a movement or a position, the type of terrain, the type of turn, carved or less edged, the radius or long/shortness of the turn, and the type of snow (groomer, bumps, powder) must be included in the question.

Or posts like mine may spin the whole thread out of its intended direction.

 

[CalG]

Pop in a ski is a wonderful thing.
It can be , anyway. ;-)

Pop in a skier is a choice.

When I brace heavily against the the G forces developed in a turn, and then carry that "bracing" into the transition, the result is a vertical "pop" that can be rewarding as well as useful. Pop in crud and mank can help clear the tails.

But there is an option. One can just let the brace leg relax and compress (flex?) at the release from the old turn. Relaxing the old outside leg along with a strong head lead can return a wonderful sensation of weightlessness. Releasing into some void of uncertainty, only to have the skis track into the new turn and come around and under to support your flow down the mountain.

Yep! Pop is an option.... ;-)