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Plus Tires and all the hype around them

Lauren

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I'm jumping on the curiosity train regarding plus size tires. What's with all the hype? Is it only hype; something new with a lot of publicity? Or are they actually the latest and greatest thing to happen to mountain biking? Pros? Cons?

I've been looking at reviews, which are minimal. So I'm interested in hearing opinions from those that have ridden them, sell them, or just have any opinion about them in general.
 

Superbman

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Some people like them and some people don't. Try some out and see which group you fall into. It's not hype, they offer a different ride for different riders.

Where you typically ride will have a lot of influence on what you like as well.

Notable upside of Plus: greater traction going uphill in steeper than average grades on looser or nastier trail tread. If you have intermediate level cornering skills, you'll appreciate the 'no-fail' feel of wider tires.

Notable downsides: They're fragile….way more so than well-built enduro tires and standard fat tires. Lot's of flats and sidewall rips…not sure why this is true, but do some research (either anecdotal or deductive) and you'll see that it is a common complaint. They climb slow, those that like to do piles of miles (especially hilly piles of miles) aren't going to like them, and they handle very differently than standard enduro tires or 29ers-some will prefer one over the other.

I have had the opportunity to ride a number of these bikes, including bikes that come as either plus or 29er in both configurations and I've preferred the New standard 29er to the plus bike in every case. Also, much of what I like about plus bikes, I think Fat bikes do better--so if you are already a Fat bike fan (or fat curious) make sure you check out the better Fat bikes vs. their plus-bike rivals.

Best plus bike I've ridder was a 29er Plus (Trek Stache 9..which is really a wonderful bike)-unfortunately the 29er plus is the one standard that is on the losing end and just hasn't caught on at all. So, I'd be leery of dropping real money in one of these. Too bad, it was the best one.
 
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Lauren

Lauren

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Being fragile isn't one of the downsides that I've read yet...but then again, I'm just beginning my research, and have been seeing mostly reviews from magazine/website publications. Not a whole lot of reviews from the average consumer out there.

Best plus bike I've ridder was a 29er Plus (Trek Stache 9..which is really a wonderful bike)-unfortunately the 29er plus is the one standard that is on the losing end and just hasn't caught on at all. So, I'd be leery of dropping real money in one of these. Too bad, it was the best one.

Yea, I don't think I've seen too many 29er plus bikes on the market...seems like mostly 27.5s.
 

crgildart

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Standard mountain bike tires barely fit quite tightly in my Thule roof top bike tray. How much does it cost to replace the trays to accommodate fat or plus tires?
 

Tom K.

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Standard mountain bike tires barely fit quite tightly in my Thule roof top bike tray. How much does it cost to replace the trays to accommodate fat or plus tires?

If your bike faces forward, all you really need is a good load strap (I've used the Voile stretchy ones, as well as toe clip straps, and I always use two). Between the sharp-ish rails of the tray and the knobby tire tread, it works out fine.

The fragility of the plus tires is a real thing. They're bigger, and so far, in order to keep weight down, most tire mfgs have made the tires a bit overly light IMO. Expect more robust offerings soon.

So far, I don't see the advantage of plus over a good 29 x 2.4. Very fast, expert riders all the way up to top World Cup pros do NOT typically choose the plus tires in comparison tests, though there are some pretty reputable "every man" websites that have found them to be faster in most regards, so who knows? The exception would be very rocky areas, where I would love the extra traction and -- even more -- the extra cush at the end of a long day. My beloved Remedy 9.8 29er will be due for replacement next season, and the new bike -- likely a Fuel EX -- will allow for the use of plus tires, which will be installed for every trip to Moab, Gooseberry, etc., but probably not ridden much at home in Oregon.
 
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Lauren

Lauren

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Very fast, expert riders all the way up to top World Cup pros do NOT typically choose the plus tires in comparison tests, though there are some pretty reputable "every man" websites that have found them to be faster in most regards, so who knows?

I saw one recently (the source escapes me tho, and I can't seem to find it again), that compared a 27, 29 and 27+, same bike (I think it was the Scott Genius) all riders felt they were the fastest on the 29er...but when timed results were shown, they were all actually faster on the 27+. I found those results interesting and not what I expected. I for one definitely don't really care about being the fastest out there, I always go for the "fun" factor.

Any comments on the playfulness of a bike with plus tires vs. regular tires?
 

jmeb

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...Any comments on the playfulness of a bike with plus tires vs. regular tires?

I am not an expert. Just a bike enthusiast who mtbs 1x or 2x a week and commutes to work. So YMMV,

At this point, you really need to compare bikes to bikes, tires to tires to get at the idea of playfulness. A different bike with plus-sized vs a bike with "normal" sized will yield very different results.

This summer I made the same decision between two bikes by the same manufacturer. One was their 27.5+ version (w/ 130mm front/130mm rear travel) and one was their 27.5 version (w/ 150mm/130mm travel.) Similar geo's, similar build kit. For me the 27.5 was a bit more fun/jibby. I'd probably attribute this to: slightly lower wheel weight, slightly long front travel for bigger hits, and 20mm short chainstays. The plus bike definitely had more traction going over rooty section and in sandier conditions. It felt more grounded and therefore very confidence inspiring. But less "flickable". Sort of like skis -- you get a trade off between edgehold/stability and jibability. Got to find the right mix for you.

"Normal" sized is in quotes because tires on even non-plus bikes have gotten pretty big in the last couple of years. 2.4" tires are noticeably larger than 2.2s that were common a few years ago.

tl;dr: I wouldn't rule a bike out based on wheel size. Like skiing, demoing is best way to know what kind of bike suits you. Or read good reviews and take you best bet (often can work well if you read a bunch of reviews on forums etc.)
 
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Lauren

Lauren

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tl;dr: I wouldn't rule a bike out based on wheel size. Like skiing, demoing is best way to know what kind of bike suits you. Or read good reviews and take you best bet (often can work well if you read a bunch of reviews on forums etc.)

Shops that offer demos in the northeast are few and far in between, so being able to actually try the different wheel sizes beyond the parking lot is probably not going to happen. So I've been trying to read up as much as I can on reviews and opinion pieces, hence starting this conversation. Maybe somebody here knows of some shops that demo in NH or ME?
 

Doug Briggs

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I recently upgraded to 2.35 in tires from 2.2s and noticed a great difference in cornering and climbing traction. This could be attributable to the new tread, though. The 2.35 reduce that amount of out-of-true your bike can withstand. They are also a little sqooshy feeling in the turns, but I got used to that.
 

Doug Briggs

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Quite frankly, the way the bike industry is progressing with every upgrade obsoleting the last upgrade is making me quite leery of their true intentions. 26 -> 29 -> 27.5 -> plus, not to mention fat tire bikes and the change of headset, cog spacing, number of chain-rings and all that. I'm sure there are benefits but unless you have deep pockets, there is no keeping up.
 

Tony S

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Shops that offer demos in the northeast are few and far in between, so being able to actually try the different wheel sizes beyond the parking lot is probably not going to happen. So I've been trying to read up as much as I can on reviews and opinion pieces, hence starting this conversation. Maybe somebody here knows of some shops that demo in NH or ME?

Well, you missed NEMBA Fest, which is your best opportunity for bike demos on real trails. (My SO and I rode 16 or so in a weekend.) Next year.

Even so, you want to keep an eye out for mfr demos, not shop demos. Often these are associated with a local dealer, but that's different from a demo where the shop's own inventory is on the line. For example, near me Bean had the Scott truck come by fire dirt demos back in early summer.

She was not looking at plus bikes, so I don't have a lot of experience. However, I did spend a half hour or so on a Fuel EX+. My take away was that it was a cushy hoot for one ride, and that it would be PERFECT for a rider who struggles to keep up due to modest technical skills. Idiot proof.
 

Tom K.

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I saw one recently (the source escapes me tho, and I can't seem to find it again), that compared a 27, 29 and 27+, same bike (I think it was the Scott Genius) all riders felt they were the fastest on the 29er...but when timed results were shown, they were all actually faster on the 27+. I found those results interesting and not what I expected. I for one definitely don't really care about being the fastest out there, I always go for the "fun" factor.

Any comments on the playfulness of a bike with plus tires vs. regular tires?

I saw that one, too. Very interesting. The one I saw was a video of a day long comparison at a UK bike park. Hosted by Rob somebody, and including riders like Steve Peat (still amazingly fast) and Tracy Mosely. The surprise here was the 29er was fastest, while a slight majority preferred the 27.5 ride characteristics, and none of them preferred the plus.

I have limited time on plus, but so far "playful" is the last word I'd use. More "smooth like butter"!

I recently upgraded to 2.35 in tires from 2.2s and noticed a great difference in cornering and climbing traction. This could be attributable to the new tread, though. The 2.35 reduce that amount of out-of-true your bike can withstand. They are also a little sqooshy feeling in the turns, but I got used to that.

Doug, this agrees with what I've hit on too, now preferring 2.3 or 2.4 tires pretty much everywhere, except in the rear during an actual race. In fact, I'm eagerly awaiting release of the delayed Bontrager 29 x 2.55 tire, thinking that this "almost plus" size might just be the Goldilocks solution!
 

AmyPJ

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Interesting thread! I just demoed a 27.5 plus on a Trek Fuel EX and I felt like I was over-cornering. It was quite disconcerting, actually. I rode a Trek Remedy 27.5 with standard (maybe 2.4) tires and LOVED it. But, I'm riding a Trek Lush S 29er with 2.3 tires, and it's not known as the most nimble bike out there, so the Fuel with plus tires might have been awesome, it was just way too "twitchy" feeling for me personally.

That Remedy, though? Oh boy, do I have lust for carbon now!
 

jmeb

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Quite frankly, the way the bike industry is progressing with every upgrade obsoleting the last upgrade is making me quite leery of their true intentions. 26 -> 29 -> 27.5 -> plus, not to mention fat tire bikes and the change of headset, cog spacing, number of chain-rings and all that. I'm sure there are benefits but unless you have deep pockets, there is no keeping up.

The thing is, you don't have to keep up to have fun. There are quality parts readily available in all sizes, cog configurations. Now you don't get the latest and greatest tech in sizes that have fallen out of favor for certain disciplines (like 26er XC gear), but that is sort of to be expected. Innovation is a good thing and I think a lot of those tire changes, spacing changes, make real differences on hairy descents.

Now the increase in price for a high quality mtb in recent years....
 

Tom K.

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Interesting thread! I just demoed a 27.5 plus on a Trek Fuel EX and I felt like I was over-cornering. It was quite disconcerting, actually. I rode a Trek Remedy 27.5 with standard (maybe 2.4) tires and LOVED it. But, I'm riding a Trek Lush S 29er with 2.3 tires, and it's not known as the most nimble bike out there, so the Fuel with plus tires might have been awesome, it was just way too "twitchy" feeling for me personally.

That Remedy, though? Oh boy, do I have lust for carbon now!

The new Remedy rips. I'm tall, and a 29er guy through and through, so I'm not ready to replace my 2015 Remedy 29er with 27 wheels. Hoping they add the 29er version back into the lineup for next year.

Here's something interesting: The new 2.4 tires on the Remedy have exactly the same dimensions as last year's 2.3s. Same size, but definitely slightly improved. No intermediate "gap" in the tread pattern, a bit faster rolling, and a bit softer rubber compound. I guess they just wanted to make it clear it was a new improved version of the XR4. A little odd, though.
 
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Lauren

Lauren

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Quite frankly, the way the bike industry is progressing with every upgrade obsoleting the last upgrade is making me quite leery of their true intentions. 26 -> 29 -> 27.5 -> plus,

It is kind of amazing how quickly 26 inch wheels dropped off the sales floor.
 

4ster

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First let me say that I am much more interested in riding bikes than working on them, test riding, watching other people ride them, upgrading them, reading about them or trying to pretend I am bike tech savvy in the least. Like Doug Briggs said, it is hard to keep up & I can only guess at what I think might be best for me.

I am at the end of my 3rd season on a 27.5 Trek Remedy. After a number of short tryouts on 29ers, I was convinced that 27.5 was gonna be the bike for me even before they were available, I think I made a good choice. About a month ago I cracked one of my stock Bontrager rims which was my excuse to upgrade to carbon rims. I went with the Ibis 742's which are wider rims mounted with 2.4 Maxis High Roller II tires. I have been running High Rollers for a number of years & although they seem a bit sluggish compared to the stock Bontragers that come on Trek, they grip way better (safety) & are more durable (I ride 100ish miles a week & can't be buying & switching tires every month).

Anyway, is this wheel set-up considered plus size?
I was concerned that the handling would change but after a month of riding all kinds of rides & terrain, my impressions are that it is just better for everything that I do. So far, I am pleased :D. To me they seem both playful & buttery!

Ibis 742 rim.jpg
 

jmeb

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2.4 wouldn't be consider plus-sized. Plus-sized is generally more in the 2.7 range but not 3+.

Carbon wheels are also quite the upgrade which should make everything feel stiffer and damper.
 

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