Please help me pick a ski 88-98 wide.

[Plai]

I have the Z90 and it is my daily driver. For what the OP describes, I’d want the Endurance. That said an ON3P Woodsman 96 would be the first recommendation I’d make. The Mindbender is another option.

@David Chaus would love to hear more about ON3P Woodman. How does it compare to the Endurance? Does it ski long or short?

 

[LewyM]

I am!

I'm also considering going all the way up to 106mm underfoot. The more I talk to folks around here (and the resorts I am likely to travel to for multi-day trips), I just think 90mm might be a little skinny. More like 93 - 106 would be better, depending on ski. The issue is with the 90-98s in powder and crud and the 98-106s on hard groomers. I am looking for the Holy Grail!

It sounds like you are from the Seattle area. Where do you actually ski (Crystal? Stevens? Snoqualmie area)? Typical day at [insert mountain], what sections of the mountain do you ski? What sections of the mountain do you want to ski more successfully? Are you taking lessons? Are you interested in perfecting your technique or more interested in having fun and expanding the terrain that is accessible to you?

There are quite a few people on this board who know the area pretty well and would be happy to provide suggestions tuned to the environment of our local hills. But we need a bit more specific information. A ski in the mid-80s is a different tool than a ski in the mid-100s Different purpose, different narrative. I use both regularly, but it depends. Your size also matters to some extent.

Ultimately, the only narrative that matters is yours. There are people on this board who can help, but not all free advice is valuable or suitable for your needs. There are also outstanding specialty shops in town. Why wouldn't you lean on the advice of a professional at one of those shops? Are you getting suggestions that don't make sense? They have more skin in the game (your satisfaction and repeat business) than strangers on a chat board who may or may not have an "agenda" you aren't picking up on and may or may not have ever skied in our region.

If you are picking a single ski for Crystal, Stevens, Snoqualmie (and some travel to big snow resorts in the west) it isn't terribly complicated. There are a ton of great skis that would work well in our environment. But also a ton of not great choices, depending on your real narrative. Don't get convinced on this board to buy a more technical ski when what you really want is something that makes it possible to ski off piste at Crystal more easily. At the same time, don't get convinced by other sources to buy a super fat ski if the truth is that you want to get better at skiing Lucky Shot, the classic Chair 5 runs and Iceberg and you aren't looking to migrate far off piste.

So back to you, what do you want and how do you really ski? How often do you ski locally and where do you ski now and want to ski going forward?

 

[peterm]

One question I have for the OP is whether you are looking to improve your skiing, i.e. take lessons and work on improving fundamental movements. If so, I think a 88 width ski is going to be better than a 98. At least that's my experience.

As to specific skis, I can comment on the Brahma as I own it (180). Wouldn't call it unforgiving as it won't buck you off as its name suggests but it might be fair to say it has a smaller sweet spot than some. Can require confident/decisive movements when skied off piste. I've had a ton of good days on mine, with the occasional frustrating one thrown in as well.

Also, you mentioned the Origin 96. I demoed the 182 recently and while it was fun I found it a little too soft/vague on groomers. Wouldn't be enough ski for you in that length, and maybe not even the longer version if you're skiing a lot of crud.

For reference, I'm around 6', 200, 50+yo.

 

[PNWRod]

You can drive yourself crazy trying to demo all these skis on a website. Personally, I think you should spend a day and hit up the Brand X demo center and start trying some different skis. You will find out quickly which ones are good possibilities and which ones you will want to take off your feet and walk down instead of skiing back down to the rental shop (exaggeration sure but there were several pair that I couldn't get off my boots quick enough).

 

[tromano]

It sounds like you are from the Seattle area. Where do you actually ski (Crystal? Stevens? Snoqualmie area)? Typical day at [insert mountain], what sections of the mountain do you ski? What sections of the mountain do you want to ski more successfully? Are you taking lessons? Are you interested in perfecting your technique or more interested in having fun and expanding the terrain that is accessible to you?

There are quite a few people on this board who know the area pretty well and would be happy to provide suggestions tuned to the environment of our local hills. But we need a bit more specific information. A ski in the mid-80s is a different tool than a ski in the mid-100s Different purpose, different narrative. I use both regularly, but it depends. Your size also matters to some extent.

Ultimately, the only narrative that matters is yours. There are people on this board who can help, but not all free advice is valuable or suitable for your needs. There are also outstanding specialty shops in town. Why wouldn't you lean on the advice of a professional at one of those shops? Are you getting suggestions that don't make sense? They have more skin in the game (your satisfaction and repeat business) than strangers on a chat board who may or may not have an "agenda" you aren't picking up on and may or may not have ever skied in our region.

If you are picking a single ski for Crystal, Stevens, Snoqualmie (and some travel to big snow resorts in the west) it isn't terribly complicated. There are a ton of great skis that would work well in our environment. But also a ton of not great choices, depending on your real narrative. Don't get convinced on this board to buy a more technical ski when what you really want is something that makes it possible to ski off piste at Crystal more easily. At the same time, don't get convinced by other sources to buy a super fat ski if the truth is that you want to get better at skiing Lucky Shot, the classic Chair 5 runs and Iceberg and you aren't looking to migrate far off piste.

So back to you, what do you want and how do you really ski? How often do you ski locally and where do you ski now and want to ski going forward?

Should be required reading for any "which ski for me" discussion thread.

 

[Andy Mink]

what do you want and how do you really ski

^This^ It falls under "get the ski for the conditions you DO ski, not the conditions you WISH you ski".

 

[EmperorMA]

One question I have for the OP is whether you are looking to improve your skiing, i.e. take lessons and work on improving fundamental movements. If so, I think a 88 width ski is going to be better than a 98. At least that's my experience.

As to specific skis, I can comment on the Brahma as I own it (180). Wouldn't call it unforgiving as it won't buck you off as its name suggests but it might be fair to say it has a smaller sweet spot than some. Can require confident/decisive movements when skied off piste. I've had a ton of good days on mine, with the occasional frustrating one thrown in as well.

Also, you mentioned the Origin 96. I demoed the 182 recently and while it was fun I found it a little too soft/vague on groomers. Wouldn't be enough ski for you in that length, and maybe not even the longer version if you're skiing a lot of crud.

For reference, I'm around 6', 200, 50+yo.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I’m always looking to improve, but time and money seemingly compete amongst many, many disciplines and activities. Wishes sometimes exceed allocations.

I haven’t had a chance to ski yet. We’re just now gearing up. I plan to take a lesson or three to get back up to speed. I’m actually looking forward to it!

I just want something that can satisfy an old athlete like me who completely understands that he’s now old, fat, beat up and doesn’t run a 4.4 anymore.

 

[EmperorMA]

^This^ It falls under "get the ski for the conditions you DO ski, not the conditions you WISH you ski".

Exactly! I just don’t know what these conditions might be, as I haven’t skied in Washington. I just know the conditions are very different and much more difficult than the high-speed stuff I grew up on at Squaw and Alpine.

I just want to leisurely ski groomers and get better at this wildly different Western Washington slip that will more than likely be a part of every session.

 

[EmperorMA]

It sounds like you are from the Seattle area. Where do you actually ski (Crystal? Stevens? Snoqualmie area)? Typical day at [insert mountain], what sections of the mountain do you ski? What sections of the mountain do you want to ski more successfully? Are you taking lessons? Are you interested in perfecting your technique or more interested in having fun and expanding the terrain that is accessible to you?

There are quite a few people on this board who know the area pretty well and would be happy to provide suggestions tuned to the environment of our local hills. But we need a bit more specific information. A ski in the mid-80s is a different tool than a ski in the mid-100s Different purpose, different narrative. I use both regularly, but it depends. Your size also matters to some extent.

Ultimately, the only narrative that matters is yours. There are people on this board who can help, but not all free advice is valuable or suitable for your needs. There are also outstanding specialty shops in town. Why wouldn't you lean on the advice of a professional at one of those shops? Are you getting suggestions that don't make sense? They have more skin in the game (your satisfaction and repeat business) than strangers on a chat board who may or may not have an "agenda" you aren't picking up on and may or may not have ever skied in our region.

If you are picking a single ski for Crystal, Stevens, Snoqualmie (and some travel to big snow resorts in the west) it isn't terribly complicated. There are a ton of great skis that would work well in our environment. But also a ton of not great choices, depending on your real narrative. Don't get convinced on this board to buy a more technical ski when what you really want is something that makes it possible to ski off piste at Crystal more easily. At the same time, don't get convinced by other sources to buy a super fat ski if the truth is that you want to get better at skiing Lucky Shot, the classic Chair 5 runs and Iceberg and you aren't looking to migrate far off piste.

So back to you, what do you want and how do you really ski? How often do you ski locally and where do you ski now and want to ski going forward?

Most of these questions can’t be answered. I haven’t gone yet and probably won’t this season as I’m still recovering from major reconstructive surgery. However, Snoqualmie will get the most days simply because I can be in their parking lot in 45 minutes. I’m also more likely to go to Mission Ridge than Crystal, with both about the same distance. Travel will mostly be to Whitefish, Bridger Bowl, Big Sky, Sun Valley and Grand Targhee, one time per year at one of those, 4-5 days of skiing.

The plan is to take a couple of lessons right off the bat to familiarize myself with short, fat skis and associated techniques. Leisurely cruising of blue square groomers is the intended user profile, but I realize that isn’t always possible (especially around here!) where large amounts of wet, heavy snow can fall in a very short period of time. And, of course, any multi-day trip to a destination resort could bring almost anything, so getting better off-piste and in fresh snow is desirable.

Shops in the area are all over the place with recommendations. EVO says a 100-ish width, Sturtevants said 88-95 and Gerks said 90-100. All are down with around 180cm length for me, with Sturtevant's putting it succinctly at "177 - 183cm long and 88-95mm underfooot." Skis that have been recommended are:

Atomic Vantage 90 Ti
Blizzard Brahma 88 and Rustler 10
DPS Wailer 100
Dynastar Legend X106
Fischer Ranger Free 102
Head Kore 93 ( I am thinking I'll throw this one out of contention as it may be too light for me)
Liberty Evolv90
Nordica Enforcer 93, 94 and 100
Rossignol Experience 88 Ti, Sky 7 HD and Black Ops 98
Salomon QST 92 and 99
Volkl Mantra M5 96 and 102

I’m probably leaving out a couple but as you can see, local experts are recommending everything from 88 to 106mm underfoot for the same thing. Quite confusing! There is certainly a wide-ski bias around here, as most shops don’t even have anything under 88, and only a few of those like the Brahma and Rossi Experience 88 Ti.

If it’s useful, I’ve already purchased boots at Sturtevant’s, the Salomon S Pro 100.

I hope this helps. I realize there aren’t many specifics, but it is reality.

 

[David Chaus]

You’ve already got a relationship with Sturdevant’s, stick with their recommendations of skis to demo, and then decide for yourself. If you can’t demo, their recommendations won’t be far off for you, and you will probably adapt well to whatever you acquire..

 

[x10003q]

Don't dump the Head Kore 93 yet - I demoed a it in 180 and was surprised at it capabilities. I skied it on Eastern ice and crud and it was impressive.
6'2" and 215, over 50, ex racer

 

[EmperorMA]

You’ve already got a relationship with Sturdevant’s, stick with their recommendations of skis to demo, and then decide for yourself. If you can’t demo, their recommendations won’t be far off for you, and you will probably adapt well to whatever you acquire..

Thanks for that. I am not much of a demo guy as I'd rather just make a decision and have my money go toward my own skis. I also like that I don't use up so much time going back and forth to the store to pick-up/drop-off demo skis. My guess is I'll demo two, maybe three at most and then just buy.

Sturtevant's has recommended the Atomic Vantage 90 Ti, Blizzard Brahma 88, Head Kore 93, Liberty Evolv90, Nordica Enforcer 93/94 and Rossignol Experience 88 Ti. The Evolv 90 and the Enforcer 94 are tops on my list, but I may decide to demo one more to see if I can find "the one." Maybe the Kore 93 or perhaps the Brahma or Rossi just to get an 88 on my feet.

 

[David Chaus]

Those are all really good recommendations. I’ll throw a wild card in here: for what you’re describing here, the Dynastar Legend X88 is better than the 106, and it looks like they carry those at Sturdevants at a really good price.

 

[EmperorMA]

Would it change anyone’s opinion if I were going to pair this ski with a 100-108 quiver mate?

 

[LewyM]

Would it change anyone’s opinion if I were going to pair this ski with a 100-108 quiver mate?

What is the 108 for? More skis are fun. But that doesn't really fit the user profile or the intended use below.

...Snoqualmie will get the most days simply because I can be in their parking lot in 45 minutes. I’m also more likely to go to Mission Ridge than Crystal, ... Travel will mostly be to Whitefish, Bridger Bowl, Big Sky, Sun Valley and Grand Targhee, one time per year at one of those, 4-5 days of skiing.

… Leisurely cruising of blue square groomers is the intended user profile, but ...

What is the day, at what mountain, and on what terrain do you anticipate an advantage on a ski 100+? I like the idea of something roughly 88 underfoot for "leisurely cruising" blue groomers. Makes practical sense and I don't hear you saying you want a technical carver. In terms of terrain, Mission skis more like Sun Valley than Crystal or Stevens. The ~88s are more in the ballpark for all mountain use at Mission most of the time.

Sturtevant's has recommended the Atomic Vantage 90 Ti, Blizzard Brahma 88, Head Kore 93, Liberty Evolv90, Nordica Enforcer 93/94 and Rossignol Experience 88 Ti. The Evolv 90 and the Enforcer 94 are tops on my list, but I may decide to demo one more to see if I can find "the one." Maybe the Kore 93 or perhaps the Brahma or Rossi just to get an 88 on my feet.

^^This is a pretty good list for what you are really saying you are going to do and where you are really at with your skiing. I think that from what you've said, of that list I'd pick the Evolve90 or the Rossi 88. In the abstract, you could always pair an ~88 with a 105+ ski for a nice, complimentary 2 ski quiver. That would be a reasonable combination for our region, but I doubt that you ski enough days a season, in diverse enough terrain, to justify that. If I were you, I'd start with a 88-90'ish ski and go from there. If you are at a resort and luck into a big dump, demo something wider and be thrilled you were that lucky. A single demo day at $50 is cheaper than $800. Realistically, how many days are you going to ski at Targhee and of those, how many are going to be powder days? For now, just demo powder skis if you luck out. And when you are ready to buy that second pair of skis, it is likely that your skiing will have evolved and your tastes might have changed.

 

[EmperorMA]

What is the 108 for? More skis are fun. But that doesn't really fit the user profile or the intended use below.



What is the day, at what mountain, and on what terrain do you anticipate an advantage on a ski 100+? I like the idea of something roughly 88 underfoot for "leisurely cruising" blue groomers. Makes practical sense and I don't hear you saying you want a technical carver. In terms of terrain, Mission skis more like Sun Valley than Crystal or Stevens. The ~88s are more in the ballpark for all mountain use at Mission most of the time.



^^This is a pretty good list for what you are really saying you are going to do and where you are really at with your skiing. I think that from what you've said, of that list I'd pick the Evolve90 or the Rossi 88. In the abstract, you could always pair an ~88 with a 105+ ski for a nice, complimentary 2 ski quiver. That would be a reasonable combination for our region, but I doubt that you ski enough days a season, in diverse enough terrain, to justify that. If I were you, I'd start with a 88-90'ish ski and go from there. If you are at a resort and luck into a big dump, demo something wider and be thrilled you were that lucky. A single demo day at $50 is cheaper than $800. Realistically, how many days are you going to ski at Targhee and of those, how many are going to be powder days? For now, just demo powder skis if you luck out. And when you are ready to buy that second pair of skis, it is likely that your skiing will have evolved and your tastes might have changed.

You are right.

I should indeed get something for cruising groomers first, get my legs back under me and see what appeals to me about this newer type of skiing before deciding on another arrow for the quiver. I just realize, as you say, that a versatile, frontside-oriented 88-94 along with a 102-110 powder-style ski would just about cover me for anything the mountain West can dish out. I thought I might jump the gun a bit knowing this information, but more experience will certainly lead to a better decision down the road.

EDIT: Wanted to include that I have decided to demo the Experience 88 Ti, Evolv 90 and new Enforcer 94.

 

[James]

Why don’t you buy a few used older skis?
Your demo list looks good though.

 

[JimL]

If you are going to be skiing a lot of groomed runs, one thing to consider is, how soft are those groomers? Are your skis going to be sinking an inch or two into the snow when you put them on edge, or are they going to be mainly on top of the snow? The reason I ask is that what research there is (by Zorko and Seifert) suggests that if your skis are mainly on top of the snow, that even a 88 to 95mm ski is "wide" with respect to your knees compared to a 65-66mm ski. Seifert suggests that "wide" starts at 80mm. I realize this goes against the title of your thread, but wide skis on hard snow are not a good recipe for your knees.

As you have one bad knee, you may want to consider a narrow ski, i.e. one less than 80mm underfoot as your groomer ski / daily driver. Remember that before shaped skis came into vogue about 20-25 years ago, all skis were skinny, i.e. 65-67mm, and even the early shaped skis had a skinny waist. Note that Noodler, who is from Colorado, reported in the Three Ski Quiver thread that last season, which was a very good snow year, while choosing what he thought were the best skis for that day from his quiver, he spent 48% of his days on skis 65-75mm wide, and another 22% on skis 75-85mm wide. He only spent 30% of his days on skis between 85 - 115mm, which is where all the skis you are looking at reside. My guess is that your area doesn't get much more snow than Colorado. Hope this doesn't throw too much of a wrench in your plans.

 

[Dougb]

Don't dump the Head Kore 93 yet - I demoed a it in 180 and was surprised at it capabilities. I skied it on Eastern ice and crud and it was impressive.
6'2" and 215, over 50, ex racer

I had the exact opposite experience with the Head Kore 93 at North Star. I’m 5’9” and 155 lbs and skied it on Western ice and crud and found the ski unstable at high speeds unlike other skis I demo’ed (K2 Mindbender 99ti and Blizzard Bonafide). Granted those skis were wider underfoot and heavier, but it showed me how really varied the all-mountain category is. I know that ski is very popular but not for me. One man’s meat...

 

[karlo]

I may decide to demo one more to see if I can find "the one." Maybe the Kore 93 or perhaps the Brahma or Rossi just to get an 88 on my feet.

My opinion is that, if you can’t demo all three, the Rossi will be the surer bet