Please explain what happens when boot shells are punched or heat molded

[Hamid S]

To clarify my question, what happens to the boot volume when the lower shell is deformed by punching or heat molding?
If the volume stays the same and punching out the forefoot width will end up reducing the height in that same area, then the new set of Rossignol Allspeed Pro boots, with 100 mm last, that I just picked up may not work for me after all.

There is barely any volume to spare inside the boot when I have them on, and the forefoot area is too tight for me to keep them on my feet for longer than 10-15 minutes while sitting on a sofa.

Can these boots be fitted to work or should I start looking for something with wider last?

TIA

 

[Jilly]

I had my Atomic Hawk's toe box squared off. He blew/punch both sides of it. I got more space and comfort (and no black big toenails) from it.

Worth if it the rest of the boot is OK.

 

[WheatKing]

punching it stretches the plastic.. doesn't reduce overall volume. volume will increase.

Depends on how much you love the boot to determine if you keep them or go with a different boot.

I can't sit around in my boots.. standing in them.. no issue.. sitting.. they're uncomfortable unless unbuckled

 

[Hamid S]

punching it stretches the plastic.. doesn't reduce overall volume. volume will increase.

Depends on how much you love the boot to determine if you keep them or go with a different boot.

I can't sit around in my boots.. standing in them.. no issue.. sitting.. they're uncomfortable unless unbuckled

Thanks for your reply.
I kind of know that punching won't reduce the volume.
Just wanted to make sure that it would actually increase the volume and not simply take space from one area and move to another.

 

[neonorchid]

:\ Paging the engineers, @cantunamunch, @scott43 ...

 

[CalG]

Twice I've been advised, "warned" by boot fitters that when an attempt to widen my boot across the ball to make more room for the little toe etc.
"the roof is gonna come down, are you sure you can except that?".

I got the boot stretched, the change in the location of the volume made a beneficial difference.
But I also purchase a set of the hydraulic expanders and have since pushed that same area a couple of different ways. A little at a time,

The shell plastic must be getting thin...;-)

 

[LiquidFeet]

The toe box of my previous boots were so punched out and thinned that I could push my finger into the plastic and it would move. Cold, they were.

 

[neonorchid]

Twice I've been advised, "warned" by boot fitters that when an attempt to widen my boot across the ball to make more room for the little toe etc.
"the roof is gonna come down, are you sure you can except that?".

I got the boot stretched, the change in the location of the volume made a beneficial difference.
But I also purchase a set of the hydraulic expanders and have since pushed that same area a couple of different ways. A little at a time,

The shell plastic must be getting thin...;-)

Yes, yes and yes, think about what is happining, you should be able to figure it out. Different techniques, locations, amount of push will yield different (levels of) results. Visualize it.

The toe box of my previous boots were so punched out and thinned that I could push my finger into the plastic and it would move. Cold, they were.

Exactally.

 

[Corgski]

What socks are you wearing? Sock thickness alone can take you from too much volume to unbearable for more than a couple of minutes. Starting out, at most you should only be able to wear an ultralight ski sock, with my new boots I started out with a liner sock and worked my way up to wearing an ultralight. Heat molding the liner can also give quite a bit of space, has this been done already?

 

[cantunamunch]

:\ Paging the engineers, @cantunamunch, @scott43 ...

Is OP working with a fitter at present? The questions being asked make me think 'No'.

Yes, the internal volume can increase, and, if done right, it won't affect the buckles and main seals. Much. From OP's description, such modification should be a straightforward few hours work for the fitter. All assuming he's in the right boot for his geometry in the first place - and I don't mean foot shape.

 

[trailtrimmer]

How is the heel hold and feel on the top of your foot? Are you wearing thin socks? Do you have two or three pairs of socks that are nearly identical for ski use only?

You should have no problem getting the boot punched out by a fitter, expect to pay $35 to $60. However, if the ankle hold sucks and the rest of the boot isn't quite right, you may never get the ideal fit. If the rest of the boot is decent, then you are in a good position to have a nice snug fit. It's best to start out slightly too tight than not tight enough.

 

[Philpug]

Cold, they were.

Thank you, Yoda.

 

[Philpug]

punching it stretches the plastic.. doesn't reduce overall volume. volume will increase.

Like many of the suggestions in this thread, if done correctly.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Beware that punching the toe box in any direction may open up the space where the clog's plastic flaps come together over the front of the foot.

I've filled the now-open gaps in my boots with non-drying insulating putty, applied from the inside.
Every now and then I remove the liners to check that the putty hasn't moved.
I've found that it's pretty sticky and stays in place.
On the outside of the boots, I have multiple layers of duct tape covering that intersection.
All this effort is to keep the wind and snow out... especially the wind.
If the toe boxes were not punched, I could not ski these boots.
Why do they make toe boxes pointy? Don't people's toes take up as much space width-wise as their ball-of-foots ?

 

[cantunamunch]

Beware that punching the toe box in any direction may open up the space where the clog's plastic flaps come together over the front of the foot.

....

I've filled the now-open gaps in my boots with non-drying insulating putty, applied from the inside.
Every now and then I remove the liners to check that the putty hasn't moved.
I've found that it's pretty sticky and stays in place.
On the outside of the boots, I have multiple layers of duct tape covering that intersection.?

Haha, when I did my c.a. 2003 green Dolomites I flubbed the seals spacing; I wound up using sticky Alu sheeting to recreate the flap. Learning is a process.

All of the black bits^ are 6 mil Alu sheet.

 

[neonorchid]

-
If the toe boxes were not punched, I could not ski these boots.
Why do they make toe boxes pointy? Don't people's toes take up as much space width-wise as their ball-of-foots ?

Exactally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well some of us anyway.

 

[Hamid S]

Time for some more clarification:
1) These boots are still in 'new in box' condition. Although I have purchased them, not sure if I'm committed to keeping them. I'm trying to assess if these would even be good candidates for fitting before I start with heat molding or having them modified in any way.

2) I took out the insoles and that seems to have reduced the pressure a lot. I know getting insoles in the boots is a good idea but what is the consensus on going thru the break-in period without insoles?

3) I switched to an ultra thin pair of socks which resulted in even less pressure to the point where I can identify isolated pressure areas. At this point I only feel discomfort on the outside of the forefoot area.

4) My heels feel to be somewhat too free of pressure but I don't get any noticeable heel lift when I flex the boots. The additional space I feel in the heel area my be the result of taking out the insoles.

5) Plenty of wiggle room in the toe box but I know 26.5 is not too big because my toes get squished in a little when I straighten my knees.

6) Feels OK, to slightly loose, in the instep area but that could be because I'm not adjusting the buckles sufficiently tight because of the forefoot discomfort.

Unless you guys see any red flags, I may be enticed to try heat molding the liners next. These are Custom Optisensor T2 liners and I'm not sure if they are actually mold-able on the sides of the forefoot. Can anyone confirm that?

Thanks again

PS, I'm not currently working with a boot fitter but I'm open to the idea. Any recommendations in the SoCal area?

 

[neonorchid]

My advice. Try different boots.

??? Did you have that right outside forefoot pressure point prior to removing the insoles?
Insoles should stabilise a foot, i.e., put it in the correct position within the boot, removing it could be causing the foot to shift outward hence your pressure. If thats the case the easiest route would be to try an off the shelf thin insole such as Superfeet Yellow capsule. I am currently liking the Masterfit insoles but don't think they'll be thin enough for your application. Also look at the boot-board, if it is thick, shaving it down may do the trick.

Again I'd sugest trying other boots.

IME, a decent boot fitter not seeing you as a cash cow would help you get started by looking at your foot, recommending what brand/model(s) could work prior to taking money from you and hammering a square peg into a round hole.

IMO, be careful not to allow yourself pigeoned holed into what the shop carries when there may be another boot elsewhere which will be a better match.

 

[Monster]

Twice I've been advised, "warned" by boot fitters that when an attempt to widen my boot across the ball to make more room for the little toe etc.
"the roof is gonna come down, are you sure you can except that?".

The roof can come down - it can be moved back up too.

 

[James]

Twice I've been advised, "warned" by boot fitters that when an attempt to widen my boot across the ball to make more room for the little toe etc.
"the roof is gonna come down, are you sure you can except that?".

I got the boot stretched, the change in the location of the volume made a beneficial difference.
But I also purchase a set of the hydraulic expanders and have since pushed that same area a couple of different ways. A little at a time,

The shell plastic must be getting thin...;-)

So what happened? You you stretched the width then the "roof"?