Pivot slip demo

[HardDaysNight]

IMO the most valuable aspect of pivot slips is that they are properly performed entirely in neutral, mimicking that critical point in the transition between turns where the ski lets go its grip on the hill (not necessarily, or indeed usually, flat to the snow). The COM needs to be in the perfect position at this point, fore/aft and laterally, to allow an effortless flow into the new turn. Pivot slips allow one to practice this critical phase over and over. It’s true they also train separation but that’s somewhat trivial by comparison.

 

[mdf]

Separation?... between upper and lower body?

That shorthand is what gets people in trouble. It's really between legs and upper body.

 

[abcd]

Thank you, seeing the two side by side and then seeing the discussion is very helpful

 

[CoPow]

What is the practical application for the pivot slip?

Pretty handy sometimes.

 

[4ster]

The first video does a good job of isolating the femur‘s rotating in/below the hip socket (braquage). Pure leg rotary/pivoting and independence between the upper and lower body along with a centered neutral stance & good independent leg action.

insert Ric’s pivot slip GIF here...

I don’t think I will comment on the second one, except... Is that Erik Schlopy? & that it’s not quite it.

my mom taught me if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.

 

[CoPow]

I don’t think I will comment on the second one, except... Is that Erik Schlopy? & that it’s not quite it.

He was in the older version so it probably is.

 

[markojp]

same. why does the USSA have this as their official demo.

"This. Is. Spinal Twist!" (Spinal tap rock'in out emoji here )

 

[karlo]

What pivot slip demo do you like better and why?

A.
B.

I like the second one. In the first, the demonstrator's COM goes a bit side to side, so there's a turn component in the pivot. In the second, the COM travels in a straight line.

 

[Mike King]

What is the practical application for the pivot slip?

Passing your level 2 or 3 exam.

 

[Josh Matta]

IMO the most valuable aspect of pivot slips is that they are properly performed entirely in neutral, mimicking that critical point in the transition between turns where the ski lets go its grip on the hill (not necessarily, or indeed usually, flat to the snow). The COM needs to be in the perfect position at this point, fore/aft and laterally, to allow an effortless flow into the new turn. Pivot slips allow one to practice this critical phase over and over. It’s true they also train separation but that’s somewhat trivial by comparison.

even though I entirely agree with the neutral idea people perception of neutral and how to stay there can be vastly different from neutral.

I personally perceive pivot slips as being slightly aft while pointed across the hill, and VERY far forward while pointing down the hill. I find many people who just try to stay centered/neutral never end up achieving neutral since its literally a moving target.

 

[Mike King]

even though I entirely agree with the neutral idea people perception of neutral and how to stay there can be vastly different from neutral.

I personally perceive pivot slips as being slightly aft while pointed across the hill, and VERY far forward while pointing down the hill. I find many people who just try to stay centered/neutral never end up achieving neutral since its literally a moving target.

Absolutely. While a pivot slip, properly performed as in the first video, highlights rotary skills and upper/lower body separation, it also uses fore/aft pressure management and edging skills. It is interesting how even highlighted tasks designed to highlight a particular skill still involve the others...

 

[Smear]

When doing skidded smeared turns I try to avoid doing them with active rotary input from the leg. On smooth groomers feel I can do this by just edging the skis slightly and they oversteer/come around on their own. But if I don't focus on anything these turns end up without involving the pelvis in separation. I want more separation in there and I want the pelvis facing down the hill.

Doing pivot slips I manually rotate the skis around. I try to incorporate passive leg rotation into the skidded smear turns without forcing the turn. Allowing the legs to turn. I feel that the pivot slip drill helps me in this even though i try to avoid beeing overactive in manually turning the legs in normal turns.

[Post edited by user, video references removed]

 

[LiquidFeet]

....Wouldn't it look more functional, less contrived and more like his excellent normal skiing if there was i bit more leg rotation in there?

Nope, it would not look more like his "normal" skiing, because he does not do any active leg rotation that redirects the skis in any of his skiing. I've been working on perceiving the difference in my turns when I use active leg rotation and when I don't, and can testify that there is a perceivable difference in the experience itself.

If this conversation continues, it might try the patience of the moderators. So it might be best to leave it alone. I expect this post to be deleted, and am fine if it has to go.

 

[HardDaysNight]

even though I entirely agree with the neutral idea people perception of neutral and how to stay there can be vastly different from neutral.

I personally perceive pivot slips as being slightly aft while pointed across the hill, and VERY far forward while pointing down the hill. I find many people who just try to stay centered/neutral never end up achieving neutral since its literally a moving target.

Agree completely. This is why it’s a useful exercise

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Passing your level 2 or 3 exam.

This silly little thought popped into my head as I was pivot slipping my way down Lower Cascade on my warm-up run this morning. If I passed I avoided death or serious injury. Failing was not an option. I blame this thread for the freeze-up we saw today.

 

[Mike King]

This silly little thought popped into my head as I was pivot slipping my way down Lower Cascade on my warm-up run this morning. If I passed I avoided death or serious injury. Failing was not an option. I blame this thread for the freeze-up we saw today.

Think of the opportunity it provided you!

 

[James]

What pivot slip demo do you like better and why?

A.
B.

I like the first vid.
In the second video, talking really about the first guy since there’s a bunch of different ones and some of the racers were terrible.

The guy in the second video does it with a narrow stance. He doesn’t get his hips open as much because of it. It also seems to lend itself to a tail weighting or pushing movement. (Some of that could be camera deceit). He pivots too quickly also, making some of them border on a check.
There’s no use of the poles, or arms positioned for pole plant as in the other vid. The poles dangle from lamp post arms. This causes him I think to use too much counter rotation. There shouldn’t be any technically. There’s also a couple shots where he looks hip checked. There’s a lot of editing cuts though.

Now, at about 1:00, there’s that shot of (the same guy??) this side slipping:

^That should be the width of stance for the opening demo. The voice over even says “hip width” Opening demo is not.
He’s also not lamp posting (my new term) with the arms. The upper body doesn’t seem to be facing downhill, but could be camera lies or some just can’t get that much freedom in the hips.

Why doesn’t the guy do a pivot during that slip? Missed opportunity. (The editing of that vid is sort of chaotic overall.)

 

[nunyabiz]

From the perspective of someone who is not an instructor and just learning, I like the 1st demonstration. The video is clear and concise about what the goals/movements are. The opening animation, while cheesy, really drives home the point regarding the rotation happening in the femur.

 

[whumber]

Curious to see what the opinion is on the "official" pivot slip demos.

 

[razie]

Curious to see what the opinion is on the "official" pivot slip demos.

The girl, the last skier, did the first two ok.